Magnum opus: A dream for crafters.

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Originally Posted by fusional

relic is about more than time invested. putting the two on equal footing just due to a time element is ridiculous.

if there are steps equally as difficult as some of the relic faction leves and ifrit extreme, then maybe there's an argument for equal stats. until then, get out of here with that mess.

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However that is what I'm pitching. You could gather meterials that were from runs such as Ifrit Extreme or Garuda, or even more difficult World Bosses or long term Guild Rewards, just as the process of Relics were done, in order to obtain comparable components.

The difference would be, these components would then have to be crafted into their necessary piece items via crafting, and could not simply be assembeled by an unknown NPC in the middle of town.

Arguably the process might even be more difficult than a relic, with the trade off of being able the customize your stats to a degree, as well as name your own Magnum opus.

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Originally Posted by fusional

because you want weapons as good as relic without having to meet performance requirements necessary to get it? because you feel entitled to having weapons as good as the people who do the relic quest... just because?

what planet are you guys from?

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That added comment you edited in makes me want to smack you.

This isn't about elitism, this is about personalization and creating a crafting experience on par with the combat experience.

This is about ADDING to the variety of long term goals. And having personal ownership of your own work, which, given the amount of effort put in, shouldn't be restricted to being outshines by someone who decides to ignore crafting.


Also, I don't know what planet you're from. But I'm from earth, here there still are people who work hard to perfect their craft and make things one-of-a kind, rather than mass produce the same BS Crap over and over again.

If you want to call playing a video game an effort or a matter of weighing skill over another, go play an e-sport. I've ZERO tolerance for that sort of crap, especially when you're being needlessly defensive.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

However that is what I'm pitching. You could gather meterials that were from runs such as Ifrit Extreme or Garuda, or even more difficult World Bosses or long term Guild Rewards, just as the process of Relics were done, in order to obtain comparable components.

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ifrit extreme and garuda aren't remotely on equal levels of difficulty. garuda is super easy. if materials dropped from ifrit x, people would just cry that it's too hard. making the materials drop from even more difficult bosses than ifrit x would make the weapons incredibly rare, which would be fine- but then most people would never get them and the forums would be loaded with moaning. moreso than usual. which is already commonplace.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

This isn't about elitism, this is about personalization and creating a crafting experience on par with the combat experience.

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and how would you accomplish that, exactly? by making the synth a 2% success rate? have you actually experienced ifrit extreme to form a basis of comparison in the first place?

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

This is about ADDING to the variety of long term goals. And having personal ownership of your own work, which, given the amount of effort put in, shouldn't be restricted to being outshines by someone who decides to ignore crafting.

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you're just flipping the script here. relic already takes a fair amount of effort. you have personal ownership of your 'work' in the form of successfully finishing the hardest boss battle in the game (1.0 anyway). why should it be restricted our outshone by someone who decides to ignore challenging battles?

(also, while some people just buy their relic double melds- there already is a fair amount of crafting risk/reward going on in the relic quest when you factor in most double melds probably taking an average of 5-10 class weapons to finally succeed, and making flawless pieces for those class weapons is far from a guaranteed process)

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Also, I don't know what planet you're from. But I'm from earth, here there still are people who work hard to perfect their craft and make things one-of-a kind, rather than mass produce the same BS Crap over and over again.

If you want to call playing a video game an effort or a matter of weighing skill over another, go play an e-sport. I've ZERO tolerance for that sort of crap, especially when you're being needlessly defensive.

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i work hard to perfect my craft. battle craft. i can assure you that's more difficult than crafting in this game, no matter how you slice it. if yoshi can somehow replicate the skill it takes to clear some of the hardest battle content in the game and apply that to crafting, fine. i won't begrudge anyone that. skill is skill. time investment is time investment. but you can't expect equal payoff without equal effort/investment. and right now there is simply no way to compare crafting an item to beating ifrit extreme.

but you're right, even though relic was designed with more hardcore players in mind, and even though yoshi gave us ifrit extreme, relic faction leves and rivenroad (h) specifically to weigh skill and reward players for it, it's me who should go play another game.

yep, seems legit.

while you're at it you should probably just beg developers to take anything in the game away that requires any skill whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by fusional

ifrit extreme and garuda aren't remotely on equal levels of difficulty. garuda is super easy. if materials dropped from ifrit x, people would just cry that it's too hard. making the materials drop from even more difficult bosses than ifrit x would make the weapons incredibly rare, which would be fine- but then most people would never get them and the forums would be loaded with moaning. moreso than usual. which is already commonplace.

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And who cares about that? That's irrelevant.

Again, you on your ivory tower is looking down upon others, scared that they may find and easier path up to you. Ifrit extreme was hard, I will give you that. Many of the playerbase, myself included, coulden't complete it.

But if you're going to want to build a Magnum Opus equivilant to a Relic, then you make the dedication. If not, you settle for less. This isn't an issue, and you're trying to make it one.

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Originally Posted by Aryden

Don't just limit it to weapons. You could also do tools and armor. Maybe even make a system where once you create a certain master item, only you can make it on your server? Could be interesting.

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Not really possible, this mean, if someone join game 1-2 year after launch, or even raise his craft in that time, every possible items have been mastered. The idea to give an unique name or customize size/colors like we would for new character would add a lot of versatility. And obviously, all those items have to be exclusive, the effort put to get craft at 50 being part of journey, like relic demand lot of time.

Another idea would be to have a special item, found in dugeons, that once used in a standard recipe, make your item now exclusive, in exchange of a (big) increased materia meld success. Thus crafter could access triple meld more easely.
(I know, materia system may change, but idea is not that bad i guess)

EDIT
One interesting point would have part of armor instead of weapons. Something like rings or earings would be awsome, not that many choice here, compared to others pieces of gear.

Eventually people are going to create identical pieces, because it will be perceived as "Best for build." But this is ok. But it would also promote custom builds that would provide depth to the available gameplay.

I'm not trying to take effort out of the system, mind you. I'm actually trying to provide more motivation for putting effort into it. Again, mass production isn't the kind of crafting I like, and FFXIV's 1.0 version fell into that rutt. The highest it was able to achieve was to create a component for a relic, rather than something that could cross with a Relic and survive.

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and how would you accomplish that, exactly? by making the synth a 2% success rate? have you actually experienced ifrit extreme to form a basis of comparison in the first place?

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No, it would be accomplished by fighting Ifrit Extreme and then taking a trophy from him to craft into a meterial with 100% success rate. And chosing that meterial gives you a static bonus for your final product.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Again, you on your ivory tower is looking down upon others, scared that they may find and easier path up to you.

...If not, you settle for less. This isn't an issue, and you're trying to make it one.

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so you just directly implied twice in the same post that the process of making magnum opus would be easier than relic. and yet you want equal or superior stats... out of pride? entitlement?

based simply on your preference of crafting content over battle content?

I've always believed that if we are looking for crafters to be close to if not full classes they should have the ability to become the best craftsman in the world.

Relics do not just exist, they were made.

Players who excel at crafting should have post 50 advancement that leads them to become the level of crafter than can make Relic weapons. Very long, very difficult quest lines that require even more effort than Relics.

This would also have to have some sever conditions to it. I'm not a big fan of being forced to choose a single path, but something equally as potent.

- The weapon can only be created by completing the Quest line involved in making the weapon
- The Quest line can only be completed once a year
- The Crafter must be max level in the Class perficient with the weapon being created
- The Crafting requires two or more crafts leveled to Max Level corresponding with the Weapon being Crafted

I want to be the Greatest Craftsman The World Has Ever Known. No just a craftsman.

Of course, these Weapons must Not Be Rare/Ex. We must be able to Sell them. Not that anyone ever would.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

I've always believed that if we are looking for crafters to be close to if not full classes they should have the ability to become the best craftsman in the world.

Relics do not just exist, they were made.

Players who excel at crafting should have post 50 advancement that leads them to become the level of crafter than can make Relic weapons. Very long, very difficult quest lines that require even more effort than Relics.

This would also have to have some sever conditions to it. I'm not a big fan of being forced to choose a single path, but something equally as potent.

- The weapon can only be created by completing the Quest line involved in making the weapon
- The Quest line can only be completed once a year
- The Crafter must be max level in the Class perficient with the weapon being created
- The Crafting requires two or more crafts leveled to Max Level corresponding with the Weapon being Crafted

I want to be the Greatest Craftsman The World Has Ever Known. No just a craftsman.

Of course, these Weapons must Not Be Rare/Ex. We must be able to Sell them. Not that anyone ever would.

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while only allowing people to complete the questline once a year seems a bit excessive, i agree with most everything else in theory.

a somewhat easy short-term way to accomplish this without raising crafting level caps is to allow players to work for items which give them +1 skill in a specific craft. the items should require a bit of a grind, and a fair amount of time to acquire. they'd be r/e naturally as they would be considered priceless. sort of like the guild items in XI which would increase your crafting skill.

this would serve two functions: first, making it slightly easier to HQ things in your main crafting discipline by having a higher effective crafting skill... and second, making it *possible* to craft a higher tier weapon associated with the kind of long, arduous questline you speak of. (ie: the weapon being effectively a level 64 synth, so you can only attempt to craft it once you've collected 4 guild items which give +1 each to that specific crafting skill, bringing your effective skill level to 54)

i don't really feel like you should be able to sell the weapons, though.

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Originally Posted by fusional

so you just directly implied twice in the same post that the process of making magnum opus would be easier than relic. and yet you want equal or superior stats... out of pride? entitlement?

based simply on your preference of crafting content over battle content?

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You keep implying that the process of crafting these items bypass battle content all together, which basically means you're not paying attention at all to the topic and should be just ignored.

Quit trying to put words into my mouth that arent there and read carefully.

While you compare that Garuda is infinitly easier than Ifrit Extreme, you are forced, by fact, to acknowledge that Garuda was a step you had to take in aquiring a relic, yes?

Then why would it be suddenly easier on the crafter to have to do the same or similiar, in addition to fights that would be of equal difficulty to Ifrit Extreme?

Again, this isn't about creating an alternative path away from battle content. Quit making it out to be. This is about creating a like-relic path for players to make like-relic weapons that are personalized, while providing the experience of hand-making their own weapon, rather than filling a set of requirements while someone else essentially puts it together for them.

To make it easier for you. Take out all the steps involving you turning in something to Rowena, and instead imagine yourself going to a specific location and crafting the next stage yourself. (This means you still have to fight Ifrit Extreme, you still have to Fight Garuda, but instead of simply turning in a key item, you're crafting these meterials to gather togehter. The items never really leave your hands.)

Now expand on that to say instead of doing ONE thing for each step, you're allowed options, and those options effect the stats your weapon winds up with.

That's what we're talking about here, are you caught up yet?

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i don't really feel like you should be able to sell the weapons, though.

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I actually agree with this sentiment, with one possible exception. These weapons instead of being person bound, are account bound. So in the instance you say, have one character dedicated to crafting, and another dedicated to battle, you're not restricted by that devision. However, it's just an idea and can be easily discarded.

The concept of a 'sage old artisan who crafts the battle weapon for the hero' and you be in control of both characters is one to consiter, but it is just a concept.

I'm not in any way set to the terms I proposed, I was just giving an example of the kind of restrictions that need to be in place.

1.0 handed people a lot of thing with very little effort. I even feel like the Relic quest was far too easy. If we want crafters to be able to create something that excels to the level of Relics, I want blood sweat and tears.

Darksteel type synths except every Item is like the Obelisk Head. You must have unlocked your Luminary. I want it to be FFXI Relic Weapon pain in the ass level.

I want to have a craft so hard and time consuming, even if I could make as many as I want, it would still take a year.