Please Provide Englsh TRANSLATION For The Japanese

It's not an issue of translation vs localization. Localization is necessary when translating media like this into another language, especially from Japanese which works very differently to English.

There's a difference however between good localization and what they did with FF14. It's totally possible to localize the game without cutting foreshadowing from ARR, muddling lore concepts like "The Lifestream", erasing narrative themes, misunderstanding the script, replacing all the quest names with pop culture references and generally making unnecessary changes.

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Originally Posted by Underscore

It's not an issue of translation vs localization. Localization is necessary when translating media like this into another language, especially from Japanese which works very differently to English.

There's a difference however between good localization and what they did with FF14. It's totally possible to localize the game without cutting foreshadowing from ARR, muddling lore concepts like "The Lifestream", erasing narrative themes, misunderstanding the script, replacing all the quest names with pop culture references and generally making unnecessary changes.

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Right, Localization should just be making sure the syntax checks out since subjects and objects are placed in different places.
It should not take the most basic sentences or words and change them for seemingly no reason.

It's gotten to the point where some characters in FFXIV almost have different personalities in English.
Especially when the Japanese intentionally uses more formal or casual/familiar slang with characters because of their relationship and the English gets it wrong time and time again.

Or its like, the Japanese will have a character say "I can't believe this is happening!" and the English just goes "No way!"

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Originally Posted by Underscore

It's not an issue of translation vs localization. Localization is necessary when translating media like this into another language, especially from Japanese which works very differently to English.

There's a difference however between good localization and what they did with FF14. It's totally possible to localize the game without cutting foreshadowing from ARR, muddling lore concepts like "The Lifestream", erasing narrative themes, misunderstanding the script, replacing all the quest names with pop culture references and generally making unnecessary changes.

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This. I still remember EN localization straight up remove a line (the meaning of "Etheirys"), and I only found out because I was talking with my EU friend (they play in FR).

Like, why would you do that? What even is the purpose here? And the line was spoken by the Watcher, so it's not VA related as he uses the garbled Ancients sound.

A close translation of Japanese got us gems like the Company of Heroes and the Heavensward Paladin story

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Originally Posted by FuturePastNow

A close translation of Japanese got us gems like the Company of Heroes and the Heavensward Paladin story

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You can provide translations that sound normal without tarnishing the original text.

If you played the game in Japanese and started to learn the language you would begin to notice how nonsensical some of the changes are. Especially when the Japanese uses English names or an ability or move and its still changed anyways.

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Originally Posted by FuturePastNow

A close translation of Japanese got us gems like the Company of Heroes and the Heavensward Paladin story

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I've read closer translations of the DRK quests vs the localization, and while I like them both (Esteem is the same character, he's just a whole lot angrier in English, and I 100% loved the English-only unreliable narration and journal entries), a close translation of that questline would not have given us anything like the HW PLD nonsense. It would still have been a kickass job questline.

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Originally Posted by RaionKansen

Right, Localization should just be making sure the syntax checks out since subjects and objects are placed in different places.
It should not take the most basic sentences or words and change them for seemingly no reason.

It's gotten to the point where some characters in FFXIV almost have different personalities in English.
Especially when the Japanese intentionally uses more formal or casual/familiar slang with characters because of their relationship and the English gets it wrong time and time again.

Or its like, the Japanese will have a character say "I can't believe this is happening!" and the English just goes "No way!"

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It's a bit more than just syntax. There are lines that won't sound natural in English or otherwise won't convey the intended vibe, certain jokes that may not work, phrases and concepts specific to Japanese culture which may be lost on English speakers... there are many things that need adjusting to create an equivalent experience in the target language.

None of that explains the changes I mentioned before though.

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Originally Posted by Underscore

It's a bit more than just syntax. There are lines that won't sound natural in English or otherwise won't convey the intended vibe, certain jokes that may not work, phrases and concepts specific to Japanese culture which may be lost on English speakers... there are many things that need adjusting to create an equivalent experience in the target language.

None of that explains the changes I mentioned before though.

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Can you give a specific example? Translating/localizing something like "It can't be helped" isn't difficult to do.
Changing jokes because there's alliteration or some other play on words is fine and can even still be done tastefully.

Also, I'm not convinced, on a larger scale, that changing everything is actually good for everyone involved. We shouldn't change media from other cultures to such a degree that there's no reason to learn anything about that culture. I really miss the days of fan subs or subs that provided additional notes/context so I could actually learn more. That's not what I'm asking for in FFXIV, but I would still prefer an actual translation of the Japanese instead of being stuck with whatever they decided to write for the English dub.

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Originally Posted by RaionKansen

Can you give a specific example? Translating/localizing something like "It can't be helped" isn't difficult to do.
Changing jokes because there's alliteration or some other play on words is fine and can even still be done tastefully.

Also, I'm not convinced, on a larger scale, that changing everything is actually good for everyone involved. We shouldn't change media from other cultures to such a degree that there's no reason to learn anything about that culture. I really miss the days of fan subs or subs that provided additional notes/context so I could actually learn more. That's not what I'm asking for in FFXIV, but I would still prefer an actual translation of the Japanese instead of being stuck with whatever they decided to write for the English dub.

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Honorifics, especially if they're acknowledged in the dialogue itself would be one element. San, chan, sama, etc. You can often just remove them when translating into English, but sometimes they're relevant and you need to replace them with something equivalent to denote a character's status or how another character is addressing them.

For something more specific; there's a bit in Endwalker during the apocalypse where someone is in the process of transforming into a monster, and IIRC they say "help me" (助けて, tasukete) three times. The first time it's written with kanji, then with hiragana, and finally with katakana. It's supposed to represent them losing themselves and no longer understanding the meaning of their own words, since katakana is the writing system used for foreign loanwords and it's very unusual to write 助けて using it. I believe there's a scene where Meteion does something similar, switching between different writing systems to represent her language becoming more/less familiar to the lifeforms she's addressing.

It's really cool, but something you basically can't do in English - so if you want to get the intention across you need to get creative. They didn't quite do that, but perhaps they could have.

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Originally Posted by Underscore

Honorifics, especially if they're acknowledged in the dialogue itself would be one element. San, chan, sama, etc. You can often just remove them when translating into English, but sometimes they're relevant and you need to replace them with something equivalent to denote a character's status or how another character is addressing them.

For something more specific; there's a bit in Endwalker during the apocalypse where someone is in the process of transforming into a monster, and IIRC they say "help me" (助けて, tasukete) three times. The first time it's written with kanji, then with hiragana, and finally with katakana. It's supposed to represent them losing themselves and no longer understanding the meaning of their own words, since katakana is the writing system used for foreign loanwords and it's very unusual to write 助けて using it. I believe there's a scene where Meteion does something similar, switching between different writing systems to represent her language becoming more/less familiar to the lifeforms she's addressing.

It's really cool, but something you basically can't do in English - so if you want to get the intention across you need to get creative. They didn't quite do that, but perhaps they could have.

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That is really cool! Maybe they could mess around with fonts.