Extreme Dungeons

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

Didn't they say this was going to happen with variant and criterion dungeons? more or less with scaling difficulty content... Could be wrong here.

Eitherway i think having difficulty scaling rather then just one easy mode and one hardcore mode would be a good place to start.

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Smoothing out the difficulty curve is definitely a good idea, instead of facerolling through "normal" and then hitting a brick wall as soon as you step into higher-end content.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

Smoothing out the difficulty curve is definitely a good idea, instead of facerolling through "normal" and then hitting a brick wall as soon as you step into higher-end content.

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Honestly one of the games biggest flaws is that you play content that's hilariously easy you can get past it without paying attention or something that takes a guide for most people to understand, even ext (something people consider midcore) 90% of the people doing it will look at a guide first.

Even if it was something like the with the scale you'd take more damage, New mechs or harder variations of mechs would start to show up, slowly a less forgiving enrage It would make a pretty fun and replayable model that wouldn't likely be too difficult to do.

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Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

Can't we have anything between "it doesn't really matter what buttons I press, we clear anyway" and "we will have to wipe 50-200 times to understand this single boss" ?

Is there even a tankbuster in so called midcore or 'normal' content, that does more than 50% damage of your max HP?
Are there aoe that makes the group wipe before the boss dies or is selfheal enough to sustain?
If you ask me the game would be probably a little more enjoyable if they increase dmg from mobs by 100% in all older dungeons - while removing most healing skills from tanks.

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With the recent content, I don't think they know what an in-between is, which I don't think they would take any umbrage at this, because I don't think they know what an umbrage is.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

The problem with Criterion is that it's really just three 4-man extreme fights with some corridors connecting them.

Not exactly what I would like out of my dungeon experience, if I only wanted to fight a single boss in a square/circle arena I already have enough options for that.

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Ironically the only thing that's not asinine in Criterion were the corridors with the trash, which is proof they can design fun and different things if they try. And difficulty wise? It's literally what's people have been asking between lukewarm dungeons where you press one button and clear it anyway and challenging content where you have to wipe 100+ times on a single boss to progress.

Different tiers of difficulty are not an inherently bad idea but SE refuses to adress the core issue and that is boring job design. The massive gap between normal mode and hard mode is because of this. Jobs are by and large too easy to play so the only way SE has to create difficult encounters is to crank up the encounter difficulty to 11. It's the reason for the excessive body check fights, SE has no other recourse because they refuse the obvious solution: changing their job design philosophy.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Different tiers of difficulty are not an inherently bad idea but SE refuses to adress the core issue and that is boring job design. The massive gap between normal mode and hard mode is because of this. Jobs are by and large too easy to play so the only way SE has to create difficult encounters is to crank up the encounter difficulty to 11. It's the reason for the excessive body check fights, SE has no other recourse because they refuse the obvious solution: changing their job design philosophy.

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They won't mess with class design unless they rip out the foundation that caused this mess. Three words: "two minute meta". Until they stop designing and balancing jobs around this crutch, job design will always be hamstrung by that simple fact.

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Originally Posted by theunhappypotato

Can we have like a form of Extreme difficulty dungeons for whenver 8.0 releases? where you actually have to prog it and work together in a team of 4, kinda like criterion.

It makes me kinda sad that it was only done once and hasnt beenpicked up again so far:

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Will be twice soon as the next MH trial is coming

I would seriously enjoy having something that is harder than your normal dungeons, but not as hard as criterion dungeons. The level we have in Ex trials is perfect, and doing that with dungeons is what I thought they would have done with variant/criterion, but they decided only savage raiders should access this. It's not that it can't be done with a coordinated group. It's just the level of coordination and the punishing body checks. Using the Wandering Minstrel, you could have retellings of the MSQ dungeons and create something like that with semi-decent rewards so it feels like I'm progressing my character doing them. Add some rare mounts in that, and you've got some serious continuous content. You can even add modifiers to the mob packs between bosses so you have to change up the usual strat to keep things interesting each week. Basically what I'm asking for is something like Mythic dungeons that WoW has. Just make harder versions of the MSQ dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

They won't mess with class design unless they rip out the foundation that caused this mess. Three words: "two minute meta". Until they stop designing and balancing jobs around this crutch, job design will always be hamstrung by that simple fact.

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I hope they do stop designing it around that.

Seeing WoW making a 1 button spam that performs better than 75-90% of the playerbase depending on job - feeling like FFXIV will implement something similar soon though...

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

They won't mess with class design unless they rip out the foundation that caused this mess. Three words: "two minute meta". Until they stop designing and balancing jobs around this crutch, job design will always be hamstrung by that simple fact.

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Sure, but the 2min meta is just the tip of the iceberg, or the tree that's hiding the forest.
Jobs were already boring before the 2min meta was even a thing, and it happened somewhere between SB and SHB.