Might one of XIV's biggest new problems be that localisation has gone downhill?

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Originally Posted by JohnLakeside

Yeah, I've heard from Reddit that the localization team is involved in the actual writing. But I haven't been able to find any interviews or press releases confirming that localizers are substantively involved in lore development.

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Then you weren’t looking hard enough.

https://www.fandom.com/articles/koji...e-localization

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Originally Posted by Fandom

How did you make the switch from translator to lore creator? How is your day-to-day different?

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Originally Posted by Koji Fox

There hasn’t actually been any switch. I’ve been doing both jobs since back before 1.0 was even released, it’s just that my help with the lore creation wasn’t officially recognized until Yoshi-P decided to reward (?) my work in that area of the game by adding my name to the opening credits (which, I have to admit, is the single coolest thing that has happened in my 15 years at Square Enix).

That said, my contribution to XIV’s lore still only constitutes about 10% of my workload, the remainder being mostly allocated to localization duties, as well as to assisting the team in various fun and exciting (and not exciting) ways such as interpretation, text checks, media relations, fan fests, promotional events, etc.

Though, a lot of the actual lore creation I do actually comes during the localization process. The main scenario writer, Banri Oda, will send me rough ideas for place names, monster names, character names, and whatnot, and I will oftentimes come up with backstories for those while I’m doing my translations and send them back to him for implementation in the game. Two birds with one boulder.

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Originally Posted by SongOfTheWind

Localisation always took many creative liberties here. It is still the same. Jpn players are unhappy with this expansion no less than the western players. You can check Amazon Japan reviews (where is a popular place to leave them for games).
I think one person stating that memes in en are smth they wish they would see in jpn instead is a bit too big a reach to think that’s what jpn players are thinking. I never once regretted a switch from en personally.

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Switched to JP after Dawntrail. Because the VA's aside from Koana started sounded wooden and emotionless. Bad direction / scheduling prolly.
Only one I cant stand is Urianger in Japanese. He puts me to sleep. He legit kills scenes from what I watched in youtube on other expacs.

*Serious scene* *wooden JP Urianger calmly* "hurdigurdi hurr hurr"

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Originally Posted by Hallarem

Switched to JP after Dawntrail. Because the VA's aside from Koana started sounded wooden and emotionless. Bad direction / scheduling prolly.
Only one I cant stand is Urianger in Japanese. He puts me to sleep. He legit kills scenes from what I watched in youtube on other expacs.

*Serious scene* *wooden JP Urianger calmly* "hurdigurdi hurr hurr"

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I had swapped to JP a little bit before Dawntrail released and for the most part I enjoyed it. Hearing some of the character's voices surprised me because I could recognize them from other games I've played, like Thancred having the same voice as Joon-Gi Han and Zoraal Ja having the same VA as Jotaro Kujo

Even some of the old duties were better
I hated Fandaniel's voice, but I also just didn't like Asahi in general so that could've been it
but I always found his english VA to sound like a try-hard with the forced evil laugh

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Then you weren’t looking hard enough.

https://www.fandom.com/articles/koji...e-localization

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I've seen that. I need more substantiated specifics than "I give notes to the actual writer and then he implements them." What backstories is he referring to? What was actually implemented from his notes? I just can't take his words at face value considering localizers have a tendency to exaggerate their importance in crafting narratives.

The English localization has always been questionable.

They changed and even cut out whole lines of important lore-relevant dialogue from the Ascians in ARR, for just one example.

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Originally Posted by JohnLakeside

I've seen that. I need more substantiated specifics than "I give notes to the actual writer and then he implements them." What backstories is he referring to? What was actually implemented from his notes? I just can't take his words at face value considering localizers have a tendency to exaggerate their importance in crafting narratives.

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He’s still a member of the development team and has been since 1.0 and not some third party so I’m not sure why we shouldn’t take him at his word unless you’re trying to prove some point about people injecting “politics” into translations.

On the official website, his successor, Kate’s title is given as “lore” in an interview with her.

https://eu.finalfantasy.com/topics/266

The French localizer even brings up the pixies and says “One lore point is that those creatures are agender.”

Edit: Kate’s actual credit in the game is “Lore Consultation and English Localization Lead” so I don’t think you can get any clearer than that. Other hard sources besides Koji himself talking about his contributions are him being credited for writing many of the songs.

I wouldn't say it's gone downhill, but rather that they make mistakes sometimes. They admit they do it very fast: they see a word, they translate it, then move on. The result of this is very literal translations that didn't account for context - such as the Tank Mastery trait that has been wrong for 6 years. In Japanese, it says there is an "adjustment" to stats appropriate to the tank role. In English, it says there is a "bonus" to VIT and STR. A "bonus" is different to an "adjustment". In reality, VIT is adjusted up and STR is adjusted down (ie. not a bonus to STR). They didn't spend more than a moment translating that.

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Originally Posted by JohnLakeside

I haven't been able to find any interviews or press releases confirming that localizers are substantively involved in lore development.

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Having played for 10 years I can say with confidence that they have said they work directly with the rest of the team to make sure they account for all the localizations in the actual development, and this helps bounce ideas and inspire new ideas for the development. It also always seemed that Koji was effectively helping with the lore. (Oh and let's also say there was a time Koji got in trouble at one of their round table meetings for Larboard/Starboard being too confusing in Omega, which indicates they are in these meetings.)

There was a dev panel a while ago where they talked about their localization process in depth and for important things like they MSQ, they ask thorough questions of the writers, often the same questions in different ways, to the point of being annoying. Because they want to make sure they understand what the writers intend to convey, and if that requires asking too many questions they will do it so they can convey the intended emotion in the localized version.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I wouldn't say it's gone downhill, but rather that they make mistakes sometimes. They admit they do it very fast: they see a word, they translate it, then move on. The result of this is very literal translations that didn't account for context - such as the Tank Mastery trait that has been wrong for 6 years. In Japanese, it says there is an "adjustment" to stats appropriate to the tank role. In English, it says there is a "bonus" to VIT and STR. A "bonus" is different to an "adjustment". In reality, VIT is adjusted up and STR is adjusted down (ie. not a bonus to STR). They didn't spend more than a moment translating that.

Having played for 10 years I can say with confidence that they have said they work directly with the rest of the team to make sure they account for all the localizations in the actual development, and this helps bounce ideas and inspire new ideas for the development. It also always seemed that Koji was effectively helping with the lore. (Oh and let's also say there was a time Koji got in trouble at one of their round table meetings for Larboard/Starboard being too confusing in Omega, which indicates they are in these meetings.)

There was a dev panel a while ago where they talked about their localization process in depth and for important things like they MSQ, they ask thorough questions of the writers, often the same questions in different ways, to the point of being annoying. Because they want to make sure they understand what the writers intend to convey, and if that requires asking too many questions they will do it so they can convey the intended emotion in the localized version.

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There is a world of difference between a localizer asking questions to make sure the English text is consistent with the lore written by the Japanese vs. actively taking part in creating the lore itself.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

He’s still a member of the development team and has been since 1.0 and not some third party so I’m not sure why we shouldn’t take him at his word unless you’re trying to prove some point about people injecting “politics” into translations.

On the official website, his successor, Kate’s title is given as “lore” in an interview with her.

https://eu.finalfantasy.com/topics/266

The French localizer even brings up the pixies and says “One lore point is that those creatures are agender.”

Edit: Kate’s actual credit in the game is “Lore Consultation and English Localization Lead” so I don’t think you can get any clearer than that. Other hard sources besides Koji himself talking about his contributions are him being credited for writing many of the songs.

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Titles such as "Lore Consultant," are nonetheless simply titles. If we're gonna give credit to localizers for playing a meaningful part in lore creation, then we should we be more discerning than simply looking at self-aggrandizing snippets from interviews. We need to see the proof in the pudding. That said, I'm still on EW, but from some of the negative things I've heard about DT, then maybe Kate really is involved in the lore to a greater extent than localizers were in previous expansions. Heh.

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Originally Posted by Underscore

The English localization has always been questionable.

They changed and even cut out whole lines of important lore-relevant dialogue from the Ascians in ARR, for just one example.

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This also makes me question how involved localizers are in lore creation. If they truly were so involved, then how come there are some glaring mistakes or inconsistencies with the original JP version? I don't think of deviating from the source material as "lore crafting." More like lore butchering.

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Originally Posted by JohnLakeside

There is a world of difference between a localizer asking questions to make sure the English text is consistent with the lore written by the Japanese vs. actively taking part in creating the lore itself.



Titles such as "Lore Consultant," are nonetheless simply titles. If we're gonna give credit to localizers for playing a meaningful part in lore creation, then we should we be more discerning than simply looking at self-aggrandizing snippets from interviews. We need to see the proof in the pudding. That said, I'm still on EW, but from some of the negative things I've heard about DT, then maybe Kate really is involved in the lore to a greater extent than localizers were in previous expansions. Heh.

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Not sure what else to tell you if Koji himself says 10% of his job was lore creation in the link you claimed to have read, Kate’s credited title is “lore consultant” and you’d rather believe there’s some conspiracy to inject “politics” by “translators who have nothing to do with the ‘original’ text” despite the French localizer also saying that pixies are agender according to lore.

What “proof” are you looking for?

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Not sure what else to tell you if Koji himself says 10% of his job was lore creation in the link you claimed to have read, Kate’s credited title is “lore consultant” and you’d rather believe there’s some conspiracy to inject “politics” by “translators who have nothing to do with the ‘original’ text” despite the French localizer also saying that pixies are agender according to lore.

What “proof” are you looking for?

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Proof of where exactly the localizers have directly contributed to the fundamental lore of the game. Its such a big talking point from pro-localization FFXIV players that you would think someone would be able to point to something, anything specific.