Idea for Savage Loot

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Originally Posted by dspguy

Loot system is fine. There is no doubt that most savage content is difficult. So, the rewards (20 ilvl above easily obtainable crafted gear, 10 ilvl above tomestone gear) are very reasonable.

The "barriers for entry" to raiding are abysmally low.

Raid whenever you want.
No dungeon crawl to get there.
No farming other enemies to get the raid boss to spawn.
No exp penalty for death.
Negligible gil penalty for death (repair costs are low, food isn't lost)
Raid boss isn't contested.
Drops to the party are guaranteed (no boss is dropping nothing at all)
Every party member gets a token to pick what they want after X weeks.

Once a team gets the mechanics down, it is common to clear all 4 tiers in under an hour. Maybe two if there are some struggles. What more do you want? Welcome to a game where there are daily and weekly limitations: 9 different daily roulettes, 12 daily beast tribe quests, weekly Wondrous Tails, weekly tomestone caps, daily hunt marks, weekly hunt marks, daily maps, etc etc.

I've raided in various games. FFXIV is probably one of the least taxing of all of them. Sure, the content is hard... but quick. You could be an expert at some raid content in other games and still get nothing for two hours of your time.

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FFXIV's savage fights have historically bounced all over the place in terms of difficulty but generally, the first tier is deliberately the easiest of the bunch since they keep going with an escalation league direction. This kind of backfired last expansion because of turning savage into a wall of 8 man jump rope checks. WoW has had hard fights but their stuff is pure stat grinding, so it's not exactly "hard" as much as "I hope you put the time in to get the gear". PoE was far more tactical due to the nature of the game so it's hard to compare difficulty on that front, and not too sure on GW2 since I never really did endgame in that one.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

FFXIV's savage fights have historically bounced all over the place in terms of difficulty but generally, the first tier is deliberately the easiest of the bunch since they keep going with an escalation league direction. This kind of backfired last expansion because of turning savage into a wall of 8 man jump rope checks. WoW has had hard fights but their stuff is pure stat grinding, so it's not exactly "hard" as much as "I hope you put the time in to get the gear". PoE was far more tactical due to the nature of the game so it's hard to compare difficulty on that front, and not too sure on GW2 since I never really did endgame in that one.

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I was trying to walk a fine line. I don't want to say the savage content is easy. I don't want to say it is the most challenging either.

When I raided in FFXIV, my group got a point where we'd log in on Wednesday evenings (since the servers weren't very stable on reset day) and bang out all 4 fights in 60 minutes, maybe 90 minutes... and then all log off for the week. If people have raided in other games, there is more of a commitment then just 90 minutes. And in all cases, I'm still saying you have to invest time to learn the strategy and execute it.

Simply apply the normal raid loot system to savage as well.

You can only get 1 raid reward per week, per fight, not including any minions/mounts. You will only reduce the chest rewards if you already got savage gear, or tome augment upgrade materials. You will also only get a maximum of 1 book per week (similar to normal raid weapon piece that you will automatically get upon clearing the 4th fight in a normal raid tier)
If you did not get anything however, you can do the fight again and not reduce the total chests for others.


The thing is that in theory, statics can get a fully maxed out kit for everyone in 2-3 weeks, if they organize it well and everyone is willing to cooperate with that. You get 8 raiders, all of them have 8 raiding characters. They can clear each fight 8 times, carefully making sure that everyone's main is playing with 7 alt characters of the others, and funnel all of the gear to the "mains" and likely get everyone's main up to maximum ilvl, and no luck is involved. Granted, this does require a lot of initial time investment, and then more investment and skill in actually doing the clears, needing 8 clears of every fight = 32 clears per week and it involves 64 characters.

But this is absolute degenerate metagaming in order to work around a silly arbitrary limit. And this workaround is more likely to result in burning out than this constant excuse of "omg it takes 3 months and a maximum of 1 clear per fight per week to prevent players from burning out" that you hear as a reason for why the system works the way it does.

To be honest I think they should just remove the option of "If x amount have joined then you don't get loot". I know it was probably put in place to prevent people from selling runs but I've just spent a week progging to clear MS1 and people who had completed it joined our party. I was AFK at the time otherwise I would have left but because of that my whole week of trying to prog got screwed over because 5 members who had completed it joined. It's such a defeating feeling to not even get a chance to roll on look and to just get a book? This honestly killed me wanting to continue savage at all because it doesn't feel rewarding at all for efforts.

Loot system is just bad, I think it was more better designed for statics who just give gear to DPS anyway.

I don't think theirs a loot system that will make everyone happy, but one that's 90% luck dependent isn't fun.

Just do splits /s

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Originally Posted by YomiKrane

To be honest I think they should just remove the option of "If x amount have joined then you don't get loot". I know it was probably put in place to prevent people from selling runs but I've just spent a week progging to clear MS1 and people who had completed it joined our party. I was AFK at the time otherwise I would have left but because of that my whole week of trying to prog got screwed over because 5 members who had completed it joined. It's such a defeating feeling to not even get a chance to roll on look and to just get a book? This honestly killed me wanting to continue savage at all because it doesn't feel rewarding at all for efforts.

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Pretty much what we've all been trying to say for years and they keep it in regardless. The problem is I can't remember the stated reason they added the penalty for people who already cleared it reducing the drops for those that haven't. Originally they had randomized loot and no such lockout, but the issue was people would go for weeks without getting a single drop they needed, so they eventually swapped to the chests that give the piece directly to the person.

Also this is kind of a weird restriction. Right now people can win multiple chests per week, but if they clear and join a group that hasn't cleared, the number of chests gets reduced. To change this around they'd have to restrict people to one chest per week and one book per week. That would probably get more people repeatedly doing old fights every week and keep PF alive longer, but the downside is that near the end of the week there would be people constantly attacking savage trying to get their final chests before next week, and it would definitely show the role discrepancy. The alternative might be to keep the current system but just role lock the lockout, so someone could go with a ranged, melee, tank, healer, and magic dps on the same instance and progress that way.

They probably are trying to pace people out but I'm not sure people like the current pace.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

Pretty much what we've all been trying to say for years and they keep it in regardless. The problem is I can't remember the stated reason they added the penalty for people who already cleared it reducing the drops for those that haven't. Originally they had randomized loot and no such lockout, but the issue was people would go for weeks without getting a single drop they needed, so they eventually swapped to the chests that give the piece directly to the person.

Also this is kind of a weird restriction. Right now people can win multiple chests per week, but if they clear and join a group that hasn't cleared, the number of chests gets reduced. To change this around they'd have to restrict people to one chest per week and one book per week. That would probably get more people repeatedly doing old fights every week and keep PF alive longer, but the downside is that near the end of the week there would be people constantly attacking savage trying to get their final chests before next week, and it would definitely show the role discrepancy. The alternative might be to keep the current system but just role lock the lockout, so someone could go with a ranged, melee, tank, healer, and magic dps on the same instance and progress that way.

They probably are trying to pace people out but I'm not sure people like the current pace.

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I don't remember the exact reason but I do remember when ARR Savages/Extremes were around, people would gear up their characters enough that having one lacking DPS wouldn't mean they'd just wipe and sell runs/sell the items for gil. It was maybe done to prevent that from happening? All I know is I've honestly been turned off from continuing to even try savage. Yeah, having a chance at loot just sucks in general but I'd rather have a chance then get entirely screwed out of it because 5 players who completed the raid joined a Practice/Prog group and my attempts to even have gotten a chance at loot over the last 5 days was just stripped away from because of an awful looting system.

Why would I continue putting effort into something that isn't rewarding? I'm not lucky enough to have a static and all I can do is PF at the moment. I can see why a bunch of people I knew didn't bother with savage and just waited till Alliance Raids came out so they could try upgrading their tome gear that way.

Its always a 1/8 chance of winning any piece of gear in PF. On average you will win something every 2 fights or so.

said it once I'll say it again
change savage loot to be like normal, where you can keep running each fight to get at least one guaranteed drop per fight per week
make the mount like the minion too, where it is loot independent of the weekly lockout
this would encourage people to do the fight more weekly, thereby helping more people potentially get clears