Here's why I will not support this healer strike.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Striker you have still yet to present this “overwhelming amount of contrary feedback” as anything but a fancy in your head that you ardently believe square is following for zero reason when we have clear evidence of them making unpopular changes in the past

I even gave you data on this in the other forum post

AND AND AND if our feedback is so unpopular as you say then use those community managers that are supposed to be here to come and tell us that

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I've repeatedly pointed out that developers have far more data than we do. I'm not on the dev team, so I have no more clue than you or any of us do what that data actually says. I'm just trying to help people realize it exists and understand the feedback provided on the forums is only a minuscule slice of that data, which can explain why the dev team may go in directions other than what forum-goers suggest. Just asking people to keep an open mind and realize their personal feedback is not the center of the universe.

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AND AND AND if our feedback is so unpopular as you say then use those community managers that are supposed to be here to come and tell us that

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If the devs have read the feedback and just decided not to go with any of it, then they should SAY SO.

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As much as I'd prefer to see that to, given the attitude, the belittling, the condescension, and just the immaturity coming from so many of the complainers, I for one can't exactly blame them if they just let that group shout at the wind. Do people really think they can just be absolutely disrespectful, utterly trash the developers, and then expect to be treated respectfully in return?

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Originally Posted by Striker44

I've repeatedly pointed out that developers have far more data than we do. I'm not on the dev team, so I have no more clue than you or any of us do what that data actually says. I'm just trying to help people realize it exists and understand the feedback provided on the forums is only a minuscule slice of that data, which can explain why the dev team may go in directions other than what forum-goers suggest. Just asking people to keep an open mind and realize their personal feedback is not the center of the universe.




As much as I'd prefer to see that to, given the attitude, the belittling, the condescension, and just the immaturity coming from so many of the complainers, I for one can't exactly blame them if they just let that group shout at the wind. Do people really think they can just be absolutely disrespectful, utterly trash the developers, and then expect to be treated respectfully in return?

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Striker your entire premise is “put up and shut up because the devs obviously have more feedback than us” if you were truly “we actually don’t know” then why do you never respond to people who oppose healer changes going “hey maybe the strikers are right and healers are unpopular” you only ever respond to people who don’t like the modern healers saying “actually squares data (that I can’t prove) says you are a minority, but also I’m totally neutral on this issue”, and it’s not because the strikers are the only ones passing their opinions off as fact, people who oppose the strike are just as likely to say “healers are totally fine and that’s a fact”

And if it wasn’t clear people are fed up because they won’t respond to us, it they had tackled these complaints in 5.3 then people would have moved on by now, right now people shouldn’t be expected to respect the devs when they obviously don’t respect our feedback

Also I’m still waiting for you to respond to that data I provided on the other thread

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Originally Posted by Striker44

Yet another example of mistaking personal opinion for objective fact. You are assuming there is a design issue, and just belittling and insulting anyone who has a different opinion than you. What you consider "mediocrity" could be "very well-designed" for someone else, and the design you want is what others could just as easily consider mediocre.

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Alright, let's assume what I say is purely subjective.

Then how about this,
Let's say if SQEX/CS3 one day found out that X demographic can make more money than the Y demographic which you belong to.

Then, SQEX/CS3 proceed listen to X demographic and make changes to the game that will please the X demographic while simultaneously ignore all feedback of Y demographic you are in.

How would you feel then?

Alright, let also assume that you are part of majorities, then let me ask you, are you confident enough to say that you will always be part of majorities of FFXIV playerbase for the next 4 years?
And what are the odds that SQEX/CS3 will decided this "majorities" group of yours became a "minorities" after 5 or 6 years?

The whole majority vs minority is a pointless discussion to begin with, the fact CS3 choose not to listen to minority is a red flag as you have no idea when YOU WILL became part of minority.

You're welcome.

Thank you for bringing this topic up for more common eyes to see :) That's really one of the things we want to see happening.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Thanks for creating your own thread. We were all waiting in suspense for your thoughts, and wouldn't want your 2nd post ever to be lost in the 600 page thread about this topic.

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You're welcome.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

“If this strike had been done in good faith”

Conveniently ignores the 10,000 pages of “good faith” feedback offered in the healer subforum for the last 6 years that we have believed in good faith would be considered by the devs

I don’t give a single flying f……. About xeno, I’m sick of the feedback we are offering being completely ignored and not even mentioned by the devs. I don’t need 6 months of playing DT to realise a 700 potency oGCD after chain isn’t changing the design of my job, if you think that you are just operating in bad faith

So yeah don’t support the strike if you don’t want to, but at least have some actual valid points to back it up

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Sorry if I missed a question in your twisted narrative and assumptions about me. I'd be happy to clarify the points I already made.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

I've repeatedly pointed out that developers have far more data than we do. I'm not on the dev team, so I have no more clue than you or any of us do what that data actually says. I'm just trying to help people realize it exists and understand the feedback provided on the forums is only a minuscule slice of that data, which can explain why the dev team may go in directions other than what forum-goers suggest. Just asking people to keep an open mind and realize their personal feedback is not the center of the universe.




As much as I'd prefer to see that to, given the attitude, the belittling, the condescension, and just the immaturity coming from so many of the complainers, I for one can't exactly blame them if they just let that group shout at the wind. Do people really think they can just be absolutely disrespectful, utterly trash the developers, and then expect to be treated respectfully in return?

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You make a good point. If the ones complaining can't respect the devs, they can't expect to be treated like adults either. The devs are people too and it's unlikely that they're going to sort through pages and pages of venom for helpful feedback.

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Originally Posted by Cercie

You're welcome.



Sorry if I missed a question in your twisted narrative and assumptions about me. I'd be happy to clarify the points I already made.





You make a good point. If the ones complaining can't respect the devs, they can't expect to be treated like adults either. The devs are people too and it's unlikely that they're going to sort through pages and pages of venom for helpful feedback.

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“Twisted narrative and assumptions about me”

You came in with your own post basically saying “the strike is built on false grounds and is bad because they didn’t do (insert exactly what people have been doing for 6 years)” giving good faith feedback and waiting for expansion changes to see that nothing changed and then you act hurt when people call you out on it

We complained about the ShB changes when we saw the patch notes, we were told to wait for it and play it, we did and it sucked, we continue to offer feedback we got ignored, then suddenly the narrative was “wait for EW”, so we did we waited and saw the n the patch notes they doubled down again, we offered more feedback and we continued to get ignored, not even an acknowledgment just straight up radio silence while they make the most unjustifiable changes to our role. Now suddenly with the tripling down of bad design in DT It’s now “wait and see for DT” as if we can’t tell that one oGCD per 2 minutes and more healing bloat isn’t going to change anything. All the while people like you act like we are all venemous evil people who want to rip the devs down and stomp on then when we simply want some remote justification for why our feedback is being ignored.

So yes clarify some points for me
-what do you want us to do?
-if we wait on DT and to our lack of surprise nothing changes then are we justified in your mind or will you jump to another excuse

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Originally Posted by Cercie

You make a good point. If the ones complaining can't respect the devs, they can't expect to be treated like adults either. The devs are people too and it's unlikely that they're going to sort through pages and pages of venom for helpful feedback.

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That's what I used to think too...

Until I worked with a JP dev in a doujin circle...

Me:"Hey, we been releasing the same kind of game under different paint of coating and name for like 3 years, are you sure we shouldn't release something different?"

The JP dev:"We sold a lot of game with this kind of content, and our player liked our game for that, I don't know if we try something different will upset our current playerbase, so let's just do that only after our sales went bad."

Me:"What's the center theme/sales point of our game?"

The JP dev:"Urm... we just simply add what many other player mostly like, I mean, the other circle released a game like this and sold like 10k copy for the first week, I think we should be fine."

Me:"Do you think I should use a more different art style to make our game stand out more?"

The JP dev:"I didn't see other circle use an artstyle that is similiar to yours, I don't know if players will like this artstyle, so let's just draw as usual, I think."

Me:"Why don't we do thing this way, it's way faster and more efficient too!"

The JP dev:"While it is slow, but it's also the safest way to do it, beside I never saw anyone who do things the way you did, we don't know if thing will be turn out completely okay. And add to that, we been doing thing this way for like 5 years, if we change thing up, it will take other dev sometime to get used ot it and which may cause them not being comfortable with their task."

The JP dev:"X-san, I understand your are enthusiastic about our game, but should the game don't sell well, are you willing to take responsible for it?"

Me:"......"

In case anyone curious, that circle is still going strong by keep releasing same kind of game with different coat of paint each one and half years, and no, I am not talking about FFXIV here.

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Originally Posted by Zadood

That's what I used to think too...

Until I worked with a JP dev in a doujin circle...
~snip~

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Meanwhile, Zun has been releasing "the same game" for nearly 30 years now. :p

the healer strike is fake dont let the forums try to tell you otherwise