Did Zenos ruin Endwalker

If we're talking about story, I think what "ruined" Endwalker was the pacing.

I don't really know what SE's obsession is with chores but it kills the stakes when you go into an area with the context being "there's no time to waste" and then the game tells you "lol no, the ship is broke kekw, go ask people what's wrong" despite it being the actual end of the world.

It's the same problem I had with the Talos Minecart portion in Shadowbringers. Our ship crashed, we're being pursued blah blah blah but we have to help this rando with his lack of closure and the cherry on top is, we solved it with a Deus Ex Machina.

There's a lot of times in the MSQ where I wish they would just get on with it. It's literally just padding.


God the moon bunny portion pissed me off so much.

I'll bite a bit.

I don't think Zenos ruined Endwalker. I think a lot of people really like him, and enjoyed seeing his conclusion (please god, let that be his conclusion). I'll admit, him showing up and having a couple of the best quotes in the expansion doesn't hurt as well:

"I assume this is your prey. But why does it still live? Surely it is no match for you"

"I would have thought you to be above something so banal as despair. Am I mistaken?"

Especially after 20 hours of "oh woe is us", having him just laugh it off was pretty funny.

No, Creative Business Unit III did.

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Originally Posted by Payotz

If we're talking about story, I think what "ruined" Endwalker was the pacing. I don't really know what SE's obsession is with chores but it kills the stakes when you go into an area with the context being "there's no time to waste" and then the game tells you "lol no, the ship is broke kekw, go ask people what's wrong" despite it being the actual end of the world.. It's the same problem I had with the Talos Minecart portion in Shadowbringers. Our ship crashed, we're being pursued blah blah blah but we have to help this rando with his lack of closure and then we solved it with a Deus Ex Machina.

There's a lot of times in the MSQ where I wish they would just get on with it. It's literally just padding.

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People always point to the trolley portion in Amh Araeng, but Kholusia pt2 is pretty guilty of that as well. In fact, it has "the epic music playing while you're forced to do chores for the Tholl" thing too. Just like Labyrinthos pt2 has that going on, and I'm not sure why they chose to make the same mistake twice.

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Originally Posted by EliaStormblade

I know you played the game at least moderately in Shadowbringers by your own admission, so what is your excuse for pretending not to know about the Trust system? Or is the phrasing offending you? Or are you reaching?

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I'm sorry what ? I am literally calling out the trust system, that's exactly what I'm doing, looks like that went right over your head

Encouraging players to play with NPC's instead of actual players in an MMO is... something else, and is not normal.

Good try for a "gotcha" moment though, sadly it failed miserably

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Originally Posted by EliaStormblade

People always point to the trolley portion in Amh Araeng, but Kholusia pt2 is pretty guilty of that as well. In fact, it has "the epic music playing while you're forced to do chores for the Tholl" thing too. Just like Labyrinthos pt2 has that going on, and I'm not sure why they chose to make the same mistake twice.

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Oh yeah I hated that too. There's just a lot of it sprinkled in that it's just so fucking boring.
Like jesus please. Cut out the fluff and relegate it to sidequests or something.

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Originally Posted by Payotz

Oh yeah I hated that too. There's just a lot of it sprinkled in that it's just so fucking boring.
Like jesus please. Cut out the fluff and relegate it to sidequests or something.

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You're not wrong. Even as someone who likes the story, there are indeed moments of iffy pacing. The thing is that they've always been there, which a lot of people overlook. Not to say that makes that suddenly a good thing, but it's basically a staple of XIV writing. Not like I'm against a bit of downtime either. Buildup and climax are a very normal part of writing, but XIV does have a habit of reaaaally stretching it out.

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Originally Posted by EliaStormblade

You're not wrong. Even as someone who likes the story, there are indeed moments of iffy pacing. The thing is that they've always been there, which a lot of people overlook. Not to say that makes that suddenly a good thing, but it's basically a staple of XIV writing. Not like I'm against a bit of downtime either. Buildup and climax are a very normal part of writing, but XIV does have a habit of reaaaally stretching it out.

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I don't think a bad element being a "staple" is proper justification of it being there. A lot of things that were removed were "staples of XIV" at one point.

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Originally Posted by Payotz

I don't think a bad element being a "staple" is proper justification of it being there. A lot of things that were removed were "staples of XIV" at one point.

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That's why I prefaced it by saying "not that that makes it suddenly a good thing."

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

I'm sorry what ? I am literally calling out the trust system, that's exactly what I'm doing, looks like that went right over your head

Encouraging players to play with NPC's instead of actual players in an MMO is... something else, and is not normal.

Good try for a "gotcha" moment though, sadly it failed miserably

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The Trust system that has existed since Shadowbringers. Which you are treating as an Endwalker ill and a sign that the world is ending now. Lmao.

If you are going to have an overbearing character like Zenos, forcing his way into the player's face, the only proper path is to allow the player to decide how to deal with him.