The Skillfloor

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Originally Posted by Oni_Akuma

https://gamerant.com/final-fantasy-1...ce-similarity/

Here is one article

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I get what your saying here, but this feels like your moving the goalpost right now. I don't think job identity has anything to do with a skill floor. Sure, more complexity could contribute to a higher floor, but I'd say that even with it's own unique identity, it has a much smaller skill floor compared to PvE. Not just because it has much less buttons, but what it asks you to do at a minimum in PvP is not a whole lot vs PvE.

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Originally Posted by Astralrisk

I get what your saying here, but this feels like your moving the goalpost right now. I don't think job identity has anything to do with a skill floor. Sure, more complexity could contribute to a higher floor, but I'd say that even with it's own unique identity, it has a much smaller skill floor compared to PvE. Not just because it has much less buttons, but what it asks you to do at a minimum in PvP is not a whole lot vs PvE.

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In PvE you just need to know what your rotation is and what a boss is gonna throw at you, almost any mechanic a boss is gonna throw out you know what it'll do because you've seen it 1000 times before.

In PvP you gotta know what every single job is capable of so you know how to counter or exploit its weaknesses, making the learning curve much steeper if you want to do well compared to PvE.

Only difference is once you do know them, you barely have to learn anything new for probably the entire expansion PvP wise, in PvE you get new encounters every big patch so you have to learn new stuff every time.

I think the skill floor has to do with the gimmicks that surround each job. There's also the fact that SAM LB, MCH Chainsaw, and NIN LB exist in the vein that they are extremely powerful for their own reasons(Instant Kill, Chance of Instant Kill, and Chain LB). As far as things go, they won't ever balance PvP since it's broken in some respects for certain jobs(staring at you RDM).

This skill floor on top of Crowd Control being a complete mess is what attributes to how high it is. If we didn't have as much Crowd Control, maybe we might've had a better PvP experience somewhat?

Highskill floor with small skill sets given to all jobs. Yea… ok dude.

I’m sorry to say, it’s just bad. It’s mainly a matter of having the right jobs combination both in CC and frontlines.

When I play actual games with good PvP, there’s a steep learning curve and a huge pay-off at the end when you compare the before/after in K/D ratio, etc. There’s none of that here.

There’s a reason why MMOs are not reference nor popular for good and competitive PvP. It’s because they can’t and will never do it right.

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Originally Posted by True-to-Caesar

Highskill floor with small skill sets given to all jobs. Yea… ok dude.

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In Smite (does that game still exist?) you only had 4 abilities, and it had a way higher floor and ceiling then any mmo and even most moba's, but that's also because you had to aim your actual abilities to try and land them, so it can be done.

But it will never be done in ff14, because that doesn't seem to be what yoshi wants.

He seems to want FL and CC to just be another mode to have fun in like deep dungeons or gold saucer, hence why even being crystal in cc is about 1700 rating in wow arena, nothing to brag about really.

It's not designed as a sweaty gamemode to begin with, the latest cc map shows this even better.

You can be sweaty in pvp just like you can be sweaty in chocoboraces or mahjongg, but that's not the core designphilosophy behind it if you look at it, whereas WoW arena is 100% designed to be so and is much harder and more competitive in nature because of it.

High skill floor in anything ffxiv related.

Nice joke :3

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Originally Posted by IckeDerTyp

High skill floor in anything ffxiv related.

Nice joke :3

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Agreed. Especially when I can beat 99% of you players [now & Feast] on a 1 v 1. Yeah the job I play is broke [currently/still my main], but it requires true combo to do it right. That aside, there is no high skill floor, since I (1 v 3) to (1 v 5) duel people in CC just to satiate my thirst for blood and the rush of staying on the edge like Feast did.

The skill floor is raised, so many of you toddlers can reach the ceiling. Sorry not sorry, cause like I am gonna say before my sub ends. 99% of you players are weaklings.

Whatever the #s are but about 13 million of you players

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Originally Posted by Oni_Akuma

Agreed. Especially when I can beat 99% of you players [now & Feast] on a 1 v 1. Yeah the job I play is broke [currently/still my main], but it requires true combo to do it right. That aside, there is no high skill floor, since I (1 v 3) to (1 v 5) duel people in CC just to satiate my thirst for blood and the rush of staying on the edge like Feast did.

The skill floor is raised, so many of you toddlers can reach the ceiling. Sorry not sorry, cause like I am gonna say before my sub ends. 99% of you players are weaklings.

Whatever the #s are but about 13 million of you players

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Once your sub ends you should try touching some grass, chief.

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Originally Posted by Oni_Akuma

Agreed. Especially when I can beat 99% of you players [now & Feast] on a 1 v 1. Yeah the job I play is broke [currently/still my main], but it requires true combo to do it right. That aside, there is no high skill floor, since I (1 v 3) to (1 v 5) duel people in CC just to satiate my thirst for blood and the rush of staying on the edge like Feast did.

The skill floor is raised, so many of you toddlers can reach the ceiling. Sorry not sorry, cause like I am gonna say before my sub ends. 99% of you players are weaklings.

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Putting aside that you sound incredibly cringe with your talking down to others to be toddlers like as if you are someone special, I believe you are mistaking "skill floor got raised" with "skill floor got relocated".

As a whole, killing got made fundamentally easier and less reliant on full party bursts (not counting FL/RW) and almost every job has a fair bit of individual impact right now. People no longer need to rely on Healers to stay alive with most jobs.

On the flipside, with individualism comes the responsibility, which is where the floor is raised again and not having a healer up your a** 24/7 to bail you out of your bad decision making means you now more than ever abuse physical cover and running away to make up for it.

It got lowered in one place, raised in another. I don't think it actually raised as a whole, but the personal skill requirement is different to before.

None of this is skill ceiling though, that is a completely different thing and depends per job.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Putting aside that you sound incredibly cringe with your talking down to others to be toddlers like as if you are someone special, I believe you are mistaking "skill floor got raised" with "skill floor got relocated".

As a whole, killing got made fundamentally easier and less reliant on full party bursts (not counting FL/RW) and almost every job has a fair bit of individual impact right now. People no longer need to rely on Healers to stay alive with most jobs.

On the flipside, with individualism comes the responsibility, which is where the floor is raised again and not having a healer up your a** 24/7 to bail you out of your bad decision making means you now more than ever abuse physical cover and running away to make up for it.

It got lowered in one place, raised in another. I don't think it actually raised as a whole, but the personal skill requirement is different to before.

None of this is skill ceiling though, that is a completely different thing and depends per job.

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I don't gotta be saved in previous mode. My burst was enough to keep me alive in a 1 v 5 or more during feast skill set. Healers never needed to save me cause I had a 17-20k Bloodbath heal combo and perfect pot timing. I'm allowed to be cringe-ish. That comes with mastering PvP and the games hard coded mechanics.

To the smallest detail in micromanagement and optimization.

Idk how you can relocate a floor under a roof though? How does that make sense? If you mean it as housing, then yeah its a new House with a new floor and ceiling, then yes it makes sense. Now it is slightly more team based / and less individual skill based in some regions, but overall it is still childs play compared to all the micromanagement that had to be done before. Like yeah with LB now being the tool for execution for individuality, it still relies on a team coordination.

Before I killed every class in 6-8s flat combo when burst was ready without an LB. All tanks and healers died when a weaved combo was performed with LB. Even the infamous GNB/DRK and Healers. This every 1m+ [exception to RPR] LB gimmick is just funny entirely.

Personal skill is different before, but overall the calculations are the same in lining up your moves for optimal damage just like PvE.