SCH concept changes

Aside overcapping, having a flexible ressources for powerfull instant heal is something I think is enjoyable as healer. Even if it means to fully let them appart when going for easy duties like dungeons. And it would be hard to have Savage where theses ressources had to be managed to suceed and in the same time havong some management on dungeons where dommage takken are something like five time less.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

It’s not a problem in the sense of it’s not a direct hinderance, but it’s very sloppy design and doesn’t feel good to use. A well-designed healer should never promote over healing, and optimized play should always result in an overhead value that is as close to 0% as possible, taking into consideration that sometimes necessary healing may bleed over slightly.

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Aetherflow and Addersgall are both problematic in the sense they promote over healing. Even Energy Drain falls in the loop as it does return some HP. Very minimal but still unnecessary HP. I would say ED still edges it out ever so slightly because it still does some damage.

Honestly, I'm not a fan of either as they fall into a pet peeve I have with tying certain skils to multiple resources. Drives me absolutely batty that abilities with long CDs also require a charge of some sort. ED doesn't even feel good to use. The only benefit coming from preventing an overcap. And in low threat content its even worse having to burn up 2-3 charges on it.

What feels good imo, is building up a resource and have that skill or skills feel rewarding. Afflatus Misery, and Toxicon in an AoE scenario are great examples of this. And the resources are built up by sacrificing a GCD on healing that pays off a little later.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Afflatus Misery, and Toxicon in an AoE scenario are great examples of this. And the resources are built up by sacrificing a GCD on healing that pays off a little later.

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I wouldn't call Toxicon a good example of this, it's 330 to main target and 165 to the rest, Dyskrasia is 170 to all. So the extra damage is entirely funneled into one specific target. If we were to change the effect of E.Diagnosis to, idk 'grants Phlegmatic when barrier is fully broken, allowing the use of Phlegma without consuming a charge', that'd still not fully restore the damage lost to the application of the shield (2 330s is 660, vs the 600 of Phlegma) but it'd be a gain in AOE situations. Of course, this then brings up the issue of 'well what about 2 target fights like TEA' but that's a different can of worms

Admittedly, I was mostly just throwing down numbers as a general idea, rather than having done much actual maths behind it, but I will say I was also mostly considering potency, rather than actual numbers. In the case of Exploitation Tactics, adlo would give up to 108 potency worth of damage, succor up to 64 potency per person, critlo up to 324, and crit succor 128 potency per person.

Of course, these are pretty substantial numbers, but that is also considering that this is assuming the entire shield is consumed, which may not always be the case. Also that they require a GCD cast prior, so its hoping to cover 2 GCDs worth of damage. Unlike Afflatus Misery since its buff, I imagine that this ability would perhaps be far more feast or famine in terms of damage, where sometimes you get your moneys worth and more in damage dealt, but other times you miss out on covering the losses for having cast a GCD heal, but at least you got a little bit of damage back, rather than nothing at all. Also the general idea was mostly just an example of giving sch more interaction with their shields. Of course, if this damage looks to be too high, it can always do as you mentioned and just have both Volatize and Vulcanize only do 10% each, with the only discrepancy being what shield they affect (galvanize vs catalyze, that is).

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

Is the 'duration' listed under Volatize the duration of Volatize on allies, or the duration of the ability to apply Volatize?

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I used the same phrasing as other similar abilities, so the 15s would be the duration of the buff after having cast it. That is to say; the sch would have 15 seconds to cast a shield. The actual Volatize/Vulcanize would simply last as long as the shield does, since its a direct manipulation of the shield itself.

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

if we did Exploitation Tactics > Recitation > Adlo > Deployment Tactics, would that spread the Exploitation to everybody?

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I like to imagine so. Given deployment and emergency both work unconditionally with their shields, I imagine it wouldn't feel great to tag limitations onto exploitation. So in the cast of ET > Rec > Adlo > DT, looking at flat potencies, you could theoretically get up to 972 potency in a 4 man, or 1836 in an 8 man, though this again depends on everyone being in range for DT, and the shields being entirely consumed on everyone. If we made ET 10% rather than 20%, then it would be a matter of 540 potency in a 4 man, and 972 in an 8 man which would probably be much more reasonable. Could also go further and just cut the listed numbers in half, making Volatize 10% and Vulcanize 5% instead for 486 potency and 918 respectively.

Another consideration was also simply streamlining the class with Summoner, though since aetherflow isn't gained until lvl 45 they aren't exactly related but that's besides the point.

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Originally Posted by Osmond

Nah on the gap closer, expedient is good enough.

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Expedient is nice, but on a 2 minute cooldown it can make things kind of awkward when that's all you have. Given scholar has to hardcast everything, it would mean keeping up with the tank during large pulls in dungeons, or getting into positions during raid mechanics would be a little bit easier on them between casting healing. The same could be said about all of the healers really, and I think that the big thing is that it would depend on what the gap closer actually is. I figured that maybe unlike Ikarus, it could be something that pushes the scholar back 15y like Bard's Repelling Shot. Another fanciful idea is to give them their own Between the Lines, where they can dash to their faerie, giving you more incentive to manage its position during a fight, and rewarding you with safety and time-saving for doing so.

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Originally Posted by Osmond

Hmm, don’t want them to change recitation. They can just change the code to make Aldo/succor instant…..but increase the MP as a trade off.

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I think the main concern there is that adlo and succor are already 1000 MP each. Given they don't have many MP management tools, it would feel kind of bad to make them permanently 200-400MP more. It would really just be a QoL matter to help with using recitation in the first place, since sometimes if you start casting too late you don't actually get to use the buff at all thanks to it timing out mid-cast.

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Originally Posted by Osmond

The fey union change….the shield can work, but will have to nerf the cure potency as a trade off.

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I'd already taken that into consideration, not to worry. Since Fey Union is normally 300 potency per tick, I'd just listed it to be lowered to 100 potency and a 150%/180% shield on top. If you used a full gauge that can be up to 1800 potency shield which would be insane of course, but that's also an entire fey gauge worth of healing wasted otherwise.

You know I thought expedient’s 2 min cooldown would be a problem, but it’s not. Most dungeons I’ve done, I barely use it. Instead I just sacred, recite/excog, protraction, and dps. As for raids…..the more I play it, the more of a good spot it’s in. It’s not like you use it for everything except instances like the dog stomp in P8S cause that hits like a truck even with succor and sacred. I don’t think they need to change or add expedient further. It’ll be too bloated..unnecessary.

If they were to buff the MP cost to instant cast adlo or succor. To compensate is to increase the shield %…….but it wouldn’t work so it’s not going to change. It’s pretty much in line with sage’s shield casting. Looks deceiving, but their cast time is the same. Sage’s animation looks like it’s not, but it is. SCH’s MP management is a bit better than sage since they aren’t forced to use their abilities to recover mp. SCH isn’t really struggling with MP issues. I guess it depends on the player.

Fey union as a mini-haima? It can work, but the potency of the shield will be very weak since you get full 10 ticks. 150 cure potency equivalent shield……..more like 100 potency to make it more enticing.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Dissipation

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Very true. While the idea was mostly just working under the assumption that the ability otherwise remained the same. If they are adamant on getting rid of the faerie, maybe they could do something like the following;

Dissipation > Assimilation
Unifies you and your faerie, granting you a full Aetherflow stack. Also increases HP recovery via healing actions 20%. In addition, allows the execution of Whispering Dawn, Fey Illumination, Fey Union and Fey Blessing without a faerie for the duration.
Duration: 30s
Current faerie will return once the effect expires.
Summon Eos or Summon Selene cannot be executed while under the effect of Assimilation.
Can only be executed while in combat.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Energy Drain

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I think its important to note that overcapping on aetherflow is mostly a nonissue given you can always spend it on energy drain as it currently is, but I suppose to that end consolidating them into one button kind of defeats the purposes of having energy drain as an aetherflow spender in the first place. I was also considering the alternative idea of changing how they use aetherflow and faerie gauge entirely;

Energy Drain (60s)
Deals unaspected damage to target and all enemies nearby it with a potency of 100 to target and all enemies nearby it.
Additional effect: Aetherflow III
Additional effect: Restores 20% of maximum MP.

Aetherflow
Now a trait rather than an ability, each stack of aetherflow is a new spender resource.

Ruin II
New effect: Action changes to Sear while under the effect of Aetherflow.

Sear / Sear II / Sear III / Sear IV
Spell, instant cast, 2.5s recast, 400 MP, 25y range, 5y radius.

Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 220 / 240 / 255 / 295 (matches Ruin/Broil potency) for the first enemy, and 40% less for all nearby enemies.
Additional effect: Increases Faerie Gauge by 10
Aetherflow Gauge cost: 1

(Mostly just for the instant cast broil potency, Sear 4 would also be a DPS gain over AoW 2 vs multiple targets up to and including 38 targets)

Embrace, Whispering Dawn, Fey Illumination, Fey Blessing
New additional effect: Increases Faerie Gauge by 5

Faerie Gauge
Now only increases with Sear and faerie actions. Lustrate, Sacred Soil, Indom and Excog instead use 10 faerie gauge to cast. Fey Union could perhaps cost 5 per tick instead of 10, and tick every 1s for 150 potency rather than every 3s for 300 potency.

This would all generally allow for SCH to consolidate energy drain and aetherflow without having to completely change any of its gauges or base functionality. It would give faerie gauge far more interaction, and also give sch an opportunity for better skill expression and optimization through the use of Sear to keep up time without dropping DPS. I suppose to that end, the only problem is when you don't need to use any of these fae gauge spenders, though separating it from DPS means that it isn't really a problem to not have to use them all the time.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Exploitation

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I considered making Exploitation Tactics a flat potency, having used Warrior's Vengeance as a reference, but I think the concern there is that it would be even cheesier than making it an amount of damage based on shield damage, since if it was a direct reaction for each hit, regardless of how much damage is actually dealt, you get situations such as tanks using mitigation to make a shield last for more hits, or in the case of paladin and gunbrealer - using their invuln to outright ignore damage to the shield while still getting the retaliation damage for having the shield in the first place. Having the damage tied to the shield directly simply means that its a fixed potency regardless of how quickly or where the damage is applied. That being said, I won't deny that it would basically turn into one of those burst window only buttons...

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Originally Posted by KarmaYraeon

Very true. While the idea was mostly just working under the assumption that the ability otherwise remained the same. If they are adamant on getting rid of the faerie, maybe they could do something like the following;

Dissipation > Assimilation
Unifies you and your faerie, granting you a full Aetherflow stack. Also increases HP recovery via healing actions 20%. In addition, allows the execution of Whispering Dawn, Fey Illumination, Fey Union and Fey Blessing without a faerie for the duration.
Duration: 30s
Current faerie will return once the effect expires.
Summon Eos or Summon Selene cannot be executed while under the effect of Assimilation.
Can only be executed while in combat.

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This still doesn't work because you're losing all the free healing you get from your faerie for half a minute. Deleting a chunk of your healing toolkit to get more healing just doesn't make sense no matter how you want to spin it. And I'm not trying to say you're a strong proponent of erasing the faerie; you're trying to find a way to make this idea work since SE seems hell-bent on swatting the faerie out of gameplay as frequently as possible, but it's on them to just accept that this is shitty design and no one wants it.

If you're going to yeet your faerie across the room and kill a chunk of free healing, the rewards needs to be pretty extraordinary. More healing doesn't and will not cut it. A major burst of damage might, but then you now have to gimp your own healing output at regular intervals in order to engage with your burst window, which isn't a great thing either. There's really no answer that isn't awful in some regard.

Rather than trying to bargain for a less awful Dissipation, just delete Dissipation. It's what SCH players have wanted since 3.0.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

This still doesn't work because you're losing all the free healing you get from your faerie for half a minute. Deleting a chunk of your healing toolkit to get more healing just doesn't make sense no matter how you want to spin it. And I'm not trying to say you're a strong proponent of erasing the faerie; you're trying to find a way to make this idea work since SE seems hell-bent on swatting the faerie out of gameplay as frequently as possible, but it's on them to just accept that this is shitty design and no one wants it.

If you're going to yeet your faerie across the room and kill a chunk of free healing, the rewards needs to be pretty extraordinary. More healing doesn't and will not cut it. A major burst of damage might, but then you now have to gimp your own healing output at regular intervals in order to engage with your burst window, which isn't a great thing either. There's really no answer that isn't awful in some regard.

Rather than trying to bargain for a less awful Dissipation, just delete Dissipation. It's what SCH players have wanted since 3.0.

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They did write healing 'actions' here, not spells, so that 20% would presumably buff Union, W.Dawn, etc too. I like this idea as it'd bring back Rouse in a sense, being able to juice up a W.Dawn in ye olde days was always nice and rewarding feeling. The loss of Embrace for those 30s would be absolutely negligible compared to the extra healing provided to the other OGCDs by that 20%. My question is, the fairy has to stand still to channel Fey Union, and can't do any other action or the tether breaks. Does this restriction still apply to the player when Assimilation is in effect?