Future Machinist Rework

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

Yes, MCH lacks button and we can agree on that.

However, try to think about which content has more than 2 targets as of 6.1:
-Dungeons? Yes.
-8 man Raids? No.
-24 man Raids? No.
-Trial and Extremes? No.

I don't do dungeons anymore, that would mean I would never ever press AoE buttons for the whole patch.
Giving the AQ AoE damage would do the same job.
The idea of merging 2 buttons is that it frees a new button.

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If you don't use Bishop that's fine, but there are people who do dungeons either regularly or through the leveling experience, so tossing them a bone is at least good. I want to consider all forms of content, not just boss fights. This would also be quite big in things like Eureka and Bozja where there are definitely needs to have AOE's very regularly. That and the rare occasion where you do have to deal with more than one enemy in a boss battle.

Again, I mostly just want Bishop to return and Machinist has so few buttons that it wouldn't do any harm, but if Automaton Queen did AOE damage each hit, I wouldn't mind although I do miss my turret since Stormblood. It does make me curious what you would bring back or add though in place of the Bishop at any rate. I've had a few thoughts with revamped Heartbreak Shot, Stun Gun, and Lead Shot, although as a replacement for Bishop, it wouldn't be bad to have a button that wasn't required to be hit all that often which Bishop at least fills along with Automaton Queen.

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Originally Posted by MikoRemi

If you don't use Bishop that's fine, but there are people who do dungeons either regularly or through the leveling experience, so tossing them a bone is at least good. I want to consider all forms of content, not just boss fights. This would also be quite big in things like Eureka and Bozja where there are definitely needs to have AOE's very regularly. That and the rare occasion where you do have to deal with more than one enemy in a boss battle.

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They already have Auto Cross Bow, Bio Blaster, Scattergun and Flamethrower as "bones" tossed to them. 3 bones should be the maximum.
For now we don't know if we will get Eureka/Bozja like in 6.X, we know a new deep dungeon is getting developed but mobs barely survive long enough to even summon the Queen. And in later floors, you want to pull them one by one.

In your document you point about slow and bind being useless.
But they are usefull in Bozja and Eureka, as well as quite usefull in Deep dungeon. And those are essential for survival or disengage.

As for multi target in Boss battle where a Bishop would work, I can't think of one since O3S. Actually, after O3S, every add phase were spread way too far to even AoE or there was only 2 targets.
As for the Extreme... Since Stormblood I'm sure there was an add phase in Shinryu, a little phase in Seryu I believe? And the rest was too spread or not enough targets.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

They already have Auto Cross Bow, Bio Blaster, Scattergun and Flamethrower as "bones" tossed to them. 3 bones should be the maximum.
For now we don't know if we will get Eureka/Bozja like in 6.X, we know a new deep dungeon is getting developed but mobs barely survive long enough to even summon the Queen. And in later floors, you want to pull them one by one.

In your document you point about slow and bind being useless.
But they are usefull in Bozja and Eureka, as well as quite usefull in Deep dungeon. And those are essential for survival or disengage.

As for multi target in Boss battle where a Bishop would work, I can't think of one since O3S. Actually, after O3S, every add phase were spread way too far to even AoE or there was only 2 targets.
As for the Extreme... Since Stormblood I'm sure there was an add phase in Shinryu, a little phase in Seryu I believe? And the rest was too spread or not enough targets.

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One more wouldn't hurt so much, but I suppose in the end, whether there's Bishop or Queen gets to have AOE attached to it, either result works out well.

They actually are not all that useful as you generally want to kill everything that moves. In Bozja I mainly get around by life leeching everything while pumping out loads of damage, in Eureka I pretty much had to do my Ranged thing as usual and bust out some chops with Fiendhunter and Eagle Eye Shot. Eurekan Potions were more your friends in that instance with Beast Essences being the other. Nothing can be better served though than Palisade returning for either yourself or party members, and especially Hawk's Eye just being outright damage. Although I do wonder what another role action would be for Hawk's Eye in particular...there is Arm Graze but maybe something new could be made? That is a path I am not sure about but maybe it could yield an interesting result.

True, I'll still take either result because in the end, Battery only having single target properties feels a little wasted. I'd even take a full damage on one target and a reduction on remaining enemies, but I don't mind either result. I'll mark that as a possibility in the document though!

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

The second suggestion is much better, thought Flamethrower should be thrown in with Drill/AA/Chain saw, a cooldown on GCD.
It could generate battery or heat, you can also merge it with Barrel Stabilizer to gain 50 heat..

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I think this could be neat. Merge it with Barrel Stabilizer and maybe have it launch a Bishop that spins around the target spewing flames for a few seconds. Make it deal damage the same way as it does now, just make it so you don't have to "channel" it. Would make the ability much more fun and usable in ST/Cleave situations

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Originally Posted by KelTheKeeper

I think this could be neat. Merge it with Barrel Stabilizer and maybe have it launch a Bishop that spins around the target spewing flames for a few seconds. Make it deal damage the same way as it does now, just make it so you don't have to "channel" it. Would make the ability much more fun and usable in ST/Cleave situations

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If it was just about me, I'd make it a turret that is attached to you and spew flames around you.
Bonus point if you could attach it to any ally you aim.
Extra bonus point if it would give a shield to enhance the support aspect. Tank and healers would also like you.

With all the Qols, I would be okay with ground targeting. But the less I target the ground, the better it is.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

If it was just about me, I'd make it a turret that is attached to you and spew flames around you.
Bonus point if you could attach it to any ally you aim.
Extra bonus point if it would give a shield to enhance the support aspect. Tank and healers would also like you.

With all the Qols, I would be okay with ground targeting. But the less I target the ground, the better it is.

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I was thinking more of something similar to Sage's Toxicon 1 skill. Where the turret flies around the selected target enemy, shooting flames all over them and nearby enemies. It would be targeted, rather than placed. I think 9/10 times, ground target abilities ruin rotational flow, especially for DPS classes.

Sorry, but the theme behind this rework seems to be about destroying MCH quality of life for an excuse to the have more damage. Really, what does Blast Charge bring besides a cast time and a 111-Drill rotation? It's not much, but at least now you have to remember where you left off when you start your Tool or Hypercharge sequence. How much will that cast time screw over your ogcd usage? Sure there's the inclusion of Railgun, but that has nothing to do with the proposed core rotation.

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Originally Posted by Atmaweapon510

Sorry, but the theme behind this rework seems to be about destroying MCH quality of life for an excuse to the have more damage. Really, what does Blast Charge bring besides a cast time and a 111-Drill rotation? It's not much, but at least now you have to remember where you left off when you start your Tool or Hypercharge sequence. How much will that cast time screw over your ogcd usage? Sure there's the inclusion of Railgun, but that has nothing to do with the proposed core rotation.

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There would be proper risk vs reward so that Machinist finally can get a large justified boost in damage since often I hear it being mobile being the reason it is kept down as low as it is. Besides that, it frees up space for more actions in addition to having less leveling issues in content where we currently are missing Heated Clean Shot for example. It would be less quality of life than moving around normally, but with reworked Heat Blast you would just have a different way to remain mobile in bursts.

Given Blast Charge is around 1.5 GCD, you can still fit in an action fine, on top of using skills like Drill and Air Anchor for example which would help with squeezing in even more actions. The Railgun charges would just be more to avoid having Marksman’s Spite be tied to heat, but also not make it just a free ability either, but something to build up to.

Appreciate the feedback!

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Originally Posted by KelTheKeeper

I was thinking more of something similar to Sage's Toxicon 1 skill. Where the turret flies around the selected target enemy, shooting flames all over them and nearby enemies. It would be targeted, rather than placed. I think 9/10 times, ground target abilities ruin rotational flow, especially for DPS classes.

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With the way of activating ground target actions via two button presses or the old macro ways, I still find it surprising that ground target actions are still tricky, I use them much like target actions personally.

It would likely be target though since Automaton King would move around, removing the need for ground targeting entirely, just have to hope others wouldn’t move targets out of the Bishop but that’s the case with many similar jobs! I should add that part to the document though for sure just in case.

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Originally Posted by Roxus

That's a well thought out document. I've been gathering my thoughts reading various threads and I'd like to ask what you think about scaling potencies based on how close you are to the target? Without needing to be in melee range. Say something like 10-20y.

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I had originally thought of this whenever I was thinking of the "positionals" version of ranged physical to try to add "more" to them. The problem with something like this is that there's no easy visual marker showing how close/far you are from the enemy. That would absolutely need to be added if they were to do something like this.