Dancer DPS is just too low

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Originally Posted by Akava

Physical ranged has been low for years now. That's not a good thing, its just the way things are. I see no reason the Physical Ranged sub-role should do less damage than melee or casters when neither of them really have much issues with downtime anymore.

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I mean smn and rdm are pretty middle of the pack too and rdm still has a lot of casting and potential downtime. The physical ranged classes essentially have 100% uptime and will always have a ranged tax because of that. Or would you prefer bow mage to return?

I've been debating going back to bard simply because current raid tier is so heavy on movement, especially P3S making positional's a chore.

The problem with the range tax argument is that it doesn't always apply. P1+2S, for example, don't really have moments that make it so you can't hit them on melee since most of their AoEs can still allow max melee range to hit them. Then when we account for the removal of positions on all by 1-2 attacks from melee role making movement less of an issue as well as the increase in mobility on casters so that they're no longer turrets and the ranged tax makes little sense to keep anymore.

personally i dont fancy phys ranged much because it is ridiculously easy to have full uptime: melee need some magic here and there and very tricky/careful positioning and even timing, casters/healers need to slidecast often and preposition too while the phys ranged runs 2 laps around everyone b4 they get to where they need to be

id wager this is the one and only reason phys ranged is tuned lower than other dps types... DNC was weak into EW, got some potency buffs, i think that put the job in a good spot

u should never be comparing ur dps/rdps to other jobs, at most within only the phys ranged role and normally only the job itself (aka other dancers)

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

The problem with the range tax argument is that it doesn't always apply. P1+2S, for example, don't really have moments that make it so you can't hit them on melee since most of their AoEs can still allow max melee range to hit them. Then when we account for the removal of positions on all by 1-2 attacks from melee role making movement less of an issue as well as the increase in mobility on casters so that they're no longer turrets and the ranged tax makes little sense to keep anymore.

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There are several mechanics in P2S that force melee to be unable to hit the boss that have no effect on physical ranged jobs. Regardless if its few or many, the fact remains those situations have no impact of physical ranged jobs. Could they use a bit more potency? Sure, but you have to still be careful and take uptime into account on top of the fact that BRD and DNC still give pretty significant buffs to the raid.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

There are several mechanics in P2S that force melee to be unable to hit the boss that have no effect on physical ranged jobs. Regardless if its few or many, the fact remains those situations have no impact of physical ranged jobs. Could they use a bit more potency? Sure, but you have to still be careful and take uptime into account on top of the fact that BRD and DNC still give pretty significant buffs to the raid.

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There is literally two mechanics that forces melee to disengage. One being the luck of the draw for Limit cut phase and the other whether they get the debuff or not. Potentially melee will have full uptime depending on what they get.

The whole range must have a damage tax is complete rubbish when melee and heck even casters have the same uptime on boss as the physical range. Honestly the whole physical range role needs to be looked at as it shouldn't be as low as it is now.

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Originally Posted by Sioken

There is literally two mechanics that forces melee to disengage. One being the luck of the draw for Limit cut phase and the other whether they get the debuff or not. Potentially melee will have full uptime depending on what they get.

The whole range must have a damage tax is complete rubbish when melee and heck even casters have the same uptime on boss as the physical range. Honestly the whole physical range role needs to be looked at as it shouldn't be as low as it is now.

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The only mechanic that will curse melee on P2S is getting the 1/3 tethers on LC. Even then, you’ll only lose…a GCD or two before the boss goes invulnerable. You can melee uptime the 2nd debug if you get it.

Even when respecting the boss mechanic like a madman, you can lose 15 GCDs maximum.
And in EW, unless you're a MNK who has access to thunderclap, you can use your ranged attack that won't make you lose much.

Considering the worst scenario, 15 GCDs is not what will make the gap between ranged and melees.

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Originally Posted by Sioken

There is literally two mechanics that forces melee to disengage. One being the luck of the draw for Limit cut phase and the other whether they get the debuff or not. Potentially melee will have full uptime depending on what they get.

The whole range must have a damage tax is complete rubbish when melee and heck even casters have the same uptime on boss as the physical range. Honestly the whole physical range role needs to be looked at as it shouldn't be as low as it is now.

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Doesn't matter if its only 1GCD. Fact remains that its there and something that physical ranged can ignore regardless of mechanics.

DNC dps is too low? Not when MCH is even lower.

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Originally Posted by Kitfox

DNC dps is too low? Not when MCH is even lower.

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I'd love to see your data that shows this, I posted mine in the other thread where MCH is even beating RDM and SMN in some content. So, that statement is false. It was only Savage and Extremes at 99 percentile+ that DNC surpassed MCH and the difference is 1-2%.