What's the general consensus on Delirium?

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Originally Posted by Derio

Its very bad. I would much rather delirium be one button that grants 5 different animations.

They did change it to 3 bloodspillers and 1 new finishing move but its still not fun to do. I wish they would just come up with something different. I was also disappointed that salted earth stayed.

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don't be disappointed that Salted Earth stayed,
be disappointed that the devs chose to ignore the 2 years worth of requests to return it to its glory days of being a powerful aoe blood builder that synergised with the kit,
in favor of giving us a needless follow up that probably wont build resources either
because giving players too many buttons would overwhelm them

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Originally Posted by shao32

I personally saw it doesn't matter if you ask to someone who hate or love current iteration of the job Delirium will be the most hated skill of the job everyone have issues with in a way or another.
Personally Inner Delirium was the skill that straight forward killed the job for me, i have issues with several changes of DRK of course but Delirium is the number one of the list and the worst by far, changing the skill to 60s recast and 3 bloodspillers won't change at all how about feel about the awful state of the skill, im tired of spam GCDs mechanics specially if GCD skill is bloodspiller wich is so bad to wach it spam.

#DeleteDelIRium

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It's an improvement, but only due to the fact that they reduced spamming the same button from 5 times down to 3 times now. Inner Release is still an incredibly uninteresting, unengaging and lazy ability...and Delirium is the low budget version of that.

Right now, the abilities that use blood are Bloodspiller/Quietus and Living Shadow. If you don't like 'Bloodspiller spam', then why do you want Salted Earth to increase the rate of blood generation?

In Heavensward, Salted Earth was just an AoE DoT ground effect, like it is now. It's unique in the fact that no other tank in the game has one, and it can be fairly versatile if you know where mobs spawn. The main reason why people have been unhappy with Salted Earth in Stormblood/Shadowbringers is because of potency nerfs. I think that's going to be the make-or-break factor here.

If Delirium is changing to a charge system, then you probably don't need to spam Bloodspiller because you're not on a timer. It just means that your next three Bloodspiller/Delirium uses are free. I think we may end up seeing a shift in focus to Living Shadow being the main 'burst' on the job, especially depending on how the new super Flood action interacts with it.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

Right now, the abilities that use blood are Bloodspiller/Quietus and Living Shadow. If you don't like 'Bloodspiller spam', then why do you want Salted Earth to increase the rate of blood generation?

In Heavensward, Salted Earth was just an AoE DoT ground effect, like it is now. It's unique in the fact that no other tank in the game has one, and it can be fairly versatile if you know where mobs spawn. The main reason why people have been unhappy with Salted Earth in Stormblood/Shadowbringers is because of potency nerfs. I think that's going to be the make-or-break factor here.

If Delirium is changing to a charge system, then you probably don't need to spam Bloodspiller because you're not on a timer. It just means that your next three Bloodspiller/Delirium uses are free. I think we may end up seeing a shift in focus to Living Shadow being the main 'burst' on the job, especially depending on how the new super Flood action interacts with it.

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That'd be pretty cool, actually having a mechanic designed around what people thought you were ACTUALLY supposed to do with living shadow. Time it with your burst/when you're at the most active part in your rotation.

But, I still think it's just gonna result in spam. You could use PLD's 4 atonement rotation as an argument, but PLD has a buff timer where you actually have to manage your uptime to see if you could even do it in the first place. Instead of Inner Release, Delirium might just end up looking like Sword Oath. Which is on the right track, but could still be way better IMO.

I know I'm jumping to conclusions, but I'm just desperate for probably the coolest looking job in the game. It has so much visual identity, yet so little gameplay identity.

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Originally Posted by Sazuzaki

But, I still think it's just gonna result in spam. You could use PLD's 4 atonement rotation as an argument, but PLD has a buff timer where you actually have to manage your uptime to see if you could even do it in the first place. Instead of Inner Release, Delirium might just end up looking like Sword Oath. Which is on the right track, but could still be way better IMO.

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At first I thought the same, IR and Delirium having 3 stacks might lead to some interesting scenarios where you hold onto stacks for dps gains later.

The problem is that this only exists for PLD's Atonement because Sword Oath is tied to a generic 1-2-3 combo and because it has Fight or Flight, neither warrior nor drk have a skill that not only temporarily buffs their own melee dps but is also independent of generating said stacks (atleast as far as we know).

The 3 stacks they get for Fell Cleave and Blood Spiller are directly tied to their "big" dps cooldowns which automatically align with party buffs and I somewhat doubt that you can hold onto a stack for 60 seconds.


Depending on what buffs we gain from mitigating damage this could however still be a possibility.

The change to IR is a net positive but honestly every TA window is just going to be a WAR's version of gnashing combo but with onslaught and upheaval weaved inbetween each gcd. It's not going to get interesting beyond that. It's also going to work like perfect balance where you got a set time i.e. 10-15 secs, to use up said stacks.

The issue with Delirium is that they keep changing DRK with each expansion and it just felt like in ShB they ran out of time and just made it like IR and called it a day. It's one of the problems when you don't have an "identity" tied to a tank. WAR is a berserker, PLD is holy knight, GNB is Squall from Dissidia, DRK is ???. Actually DRK is the tank equivalent of MCH. Both have one combo rotation, rely heavily on ogcds as filler, summon a glorified dot NPC, and have a single button spam rotation. Though DRK has no control over Esteem and can't summon it as frequently. Though it would make for interesting synergy with some mechanics. Like if you are about to die from Living Dead you can pop Esteem and he will take the death for you.

Personally I would like to see DRK transition to a "Rend" Knight, using skills like Sanguine Blade, Shadow Blade and Crush skills. The animations already exist in-game via Cid the thunder God, so why no use it? But at this point just pick something and stick to it.

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Originally Posted by Yagrush

Delirium hurts DRK's overall presentation and gameplay by being Warrior's IR but worse. It's not unique, it's not that fun to do, and it hurts Warrior by making their "thing" not unique. Also, IR works for Warrior's fantasy of just "Hitting the monster over and over again with the same attack in furious rage until its dead" so the gameplay of pushing the same button over and over feels good! It does not work for DRK.. I wonder if our impressions would be different if this was something unique to Dark Knight and Warrior's IR didn't exist, the impressions would probably be more favorable (But I gamble that not by much).

But hey, they didn't show the delirium spam in the trailer.. so there's a tiny bit of hope?

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The sheer irony is despite Delirium being little more than budget IR, it's technically better simply due to melds. Inner Release having forced DhC instead of a flat damage buff is why Warrior is the only tank melding Determination over Direct Hit. Which is annoying.

That aside though, I agree. Spamming Bloodspiller just doesn't suit the more methodical and cerebral aesthetic Dark Knight is going for. Not to mention it just feels lazy. I don't think Delirium would be as hated if IR never existed, though probably still disliked. But when it's a literal copy of an existing ability, it really stands out as the dev team having no creativity.

Sadly, it still exists since Yoshida specifically mentioned Delirium being 60s. My hope is instead of spamming Bloodspiller, they shift it to something else. Even a simple change like "Bloodspiller, Quietsis, <new ability> all have the same potency under Delirium". So now you cycle through them similar to Fray. It's not the best approach but it'd certainly feel better.

I wonder. If IR is going to a stack system, any associated buffs will likely be tied in to those stacks and not the active window. Otherwise you could just sit on your stacks and gain Crit/DH buffs on all your actions endlessly.

Thinking back, did we see Fight or Flight and No Mercy? I wonder if we're seeing a trend towards bigger damage moves with their potency buffs baked in.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

Right now, the abilities that use blood are Bloodspiller/Quietus and Living Shadow. If you don't like 'Bloodspiller spam', then why do you want Salted Earth to increase the rate of blood generation?

In Heavensward, Salted Earth was just an AoE DoT ground effect, like it is now. It's unique in the fact that no other tank in the game has one, and it can be fairly versatile if you know where mobs spawn. The main reason why people have been unhappy with Salted Earth in Stormblood/Shadowbringers is because of potency nerfs. I think that's going to be the make-or-break factor here.

If Delirium is changing to a charge system, then you probably don't need to spam Bloodspiller because you're not on a timer. It just means that your next three Bloodspiller/Delirium uses are free. I think we may end up seeing a shift in focus to Living Shadow being the main 'burst' on the job, especially depending on how the new super Flood action interacts with it.

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First things first: Salted Earth didn't recieve any nerfs in Stormblood, in fact, it got buffed from lvl 62 onwards by generating blood.

As for myself, I did enjoy those changes in Stormblood. It had great synergy with DA Abyssal Drain and Quietus, and that what most hope blood could be again. Spend MP on DA AD, use Salted Earth, gain blood, use Quietus, gain MP, spend it on DA AD, repeat loop.

I guess that's what made DRK interessting to play during AOE. You didn't spam the same action 5 times in a row, but rather at intervals. The blood gauge in Stormblood was imo a great addition because it interacted with your "other gauge" (MP), at least in AOE. You gain blood by using your abilities (Blood Weapon, Salted Earth, TBN, Blood Price), use blood skills to gain MP (Delirium, Quietus), use that MP to increase your dmg, defense, enmity or gain blood again (TBN, DA Plunge, DA Dark Passenger).

But since Shadowbringers, both gauge are completely disconnected! There is no synergy between them: When I spend my blood, I don't get any MP, when I spend MP, I don't get any blood. Only SOME abilities give us both, that's all there is to it. And our 3rd gauge (Darkside buff) is a complete waste of space on your screen. If our Darkness/Shadow abilities would increase the duration by 15s, we might have had to think twice before overcapping the gauge - since we can only cast it 4x/min. But 30s is just preposterous, it makes you turn off your brain and forget about the Darkside gauge entirely.

HW/SB was neither perfect, nor optimised, maybe even a mess. But its design was far superior to what "DRK" is now and probably will be for the next years to come.

I mean what do we even get in EW? Salted Earth is probably still weak, its burst most likely pathetic, and - if Salted Earth still remains as a ground effect, independed of your (or your enemies) ever changing position - the ability will be unreliable, too. It doesn't affect MP nor blood gauge, disconnected from the rest of the kit. The other is some kind of finisher move after EoS (FoS not confirmed), apparently an action Fray is going to learn, but whether it increases his dmg is still unknown.

What remains from ShB? Abyssal Drain is still embarrassing on single target, and will - no matter what - used together with CnS, adding to button bloat. Blood Weapon still remains as the weaker Infuriate, and considering we didn't get the so long awaited "Bunshin treatment", I doubt it will be on stacks - thus still risky without any real reward. Still on one combo btw. Inner Delirium is now copy and paste 2.0, it recieved the very same changes as Inner Release, f* well done, SE! Such creativity, many changes, very innovative, wow!

They've had way more time to create interessting designs compared to last expansion. And all they've done for tanks and healers is: remove Nocturnal stance from AST, and change NOTHING else, set everything to 60/120s CD, and then call it a day? Really? That's the exact same move they did in ShB by removing stances from tanks without even experimenting a bit, never have tanks be more bland, and now they top that with EW! You had time to rework MNK and SMN, but didn't even touch tanks and healers? I see your priorities lie somewhere else, SE, and you gonna neglect those roles, until everyone plays a DPS...

tl;dr @ OP: There is no use to even discuss Delirium, the job as a whole is pretty much broken and screwed design-wise. There is nothing interessting that emerges the feeling "yes, this is DRK, that's the reason why I play it!".

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

It's an improvement, but only due to the fact that they reduced spamming the same button from 5 times down to 3 times now. Inner Release is still an incredibly uninteresting, unengaging and lazy ability...and Delirium is the low budget version of that.

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I don't consider it an improvement at all since if nothing else has changed then Delirium will just merged in to the bloodweapon oGCD window with the bloodspillers compresing the burst window even more and then the downtime until the next burst will be exclusively a boring soul eater spam window with the sad salted earth there in the middle.

Outside of that it's a personal matter i hate spaming the same GCD for more than 2 times since always, specially if is a mechanic copied from another job and even more if is bloodspiller involved, the most antispaming animation ever made, for me DRK will remain dead until Delirium is reworked or deleted no matter how much the rest improve wich i doubt anything else will improve at all with the current dev team.