Couldn't they just have removed Redraw?

As much as I would love for them to bring back the old system, they dug their grave with the new one. If they went back, all the new ASTs would complain about the cards not being consistent and that it's a lot RNG to deal with.

While yes, the new system is consistent damage-wise and no card is really bad. The fishing is very much still there, just looking for perfect seals. It used to be an amazing feeling hitting Sleeve Draw but now it's just hatred and dread. It's an absolute chore to use and hopefully they fix it for controllers but it's pretty bad. The job loses its flavor and coming from old players, it's just a slap in the face.

I miss the old cards but SE will likely never go back. Same for the fairy. They hate trying to solve healers and their answer is dull them down and homogenize their kits.

I would have to put this in the context that the old card system still existed, and from my own gripes with this system, taking away redraw would have improved one element I did not like about it and that was the Balance fishing. I never really felt it was much of a random card system when I can just, change the card. It confounds me that players who found value in the other five cards didn't really join me in this complaint, or they didn't voice it. Unfortunately, the meta functions in favor of damage, so while this would make AST more fun for me to play, I would feel that I don't bring as much to the table as SCH and WHM when it comes to raiding because that other utility is inferior to dmg increases. Not much would change.

If anyone is asking, "Are you saying AST suffers because of the meta?" My answer is yes. But this applies to the simplification that currently governs our healers and tanks, not just AST.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

But it is mitigated. Mitigated doesn't mean it's not there, it means you're not screwed for three spires in a row.

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The current card system does mitigate rng by improving chance using seals, but the method implemented is just dull and stripped away higher potential it had, growth, and ability to prevent wipes. Yes, "bigger DMG" is optimal, but it is in no way a turnaround ability and the current set-up just locks AST is basically "No child left behind", which also kept students locked at the level of the lowest performing student instead of helping those that performed lower achieve greater. So, just like that in practice, everything is like really boring right now with nothing to push once players get to a certain skill-level and replaces it with an extreme amount of busy work for what's like a very small reward for the midcore and casual experiences like duty finder or alliance raids that are uninterested in achiever-taxonomy-centric metrics like Leaderboards and speed running

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I would have to put this in the context that the old card system still existed, and from my own gripes with this system, taking away redraw would have improved one element I did not like about it and that was the Balance fishing. I never really felt it was much of a random card system when I can just, change the card. It confounds me that players who found value in the other five cards didn't really join me in this complaint, or they didn't voice it. Unfortunately, the meta functions in favor of damage, so while this would make AST more fun for me to play, I would feel that I don't bring as much to the table as SCH and WHM when it comes to raiding because that other utility is inferior to dmg increases. Not much would change.

If anyone is asking, "Are you saying AST suffers because of the meta?" My answer is yes. But this applies to the simplification that currently governs our healers and tanks, not just AST.

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Systems that mitigate RNG are implemented in or can be applied to very successful card based games through deck-building or card-counting, so outright elimination is totally not going to make everyone happy. But, limiting it as a resource through making royal road into a stack currency, and making Divination a fluctuating constant effect whose strength is affected by the seals active and negative for overusing too many cards of the same seal would leave players more likely to offset the value of certain cards by trade-offs to avoid negative returns through balance fishing (interesting mentally). And then increasing control through abilities to control rng and stabilization of the buff. It's potentially less frantic and more cerebral than like right now

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Originally Posted by elioaiko

As much as I would love for them to bring back the old system, they dug their grave with the new one. If they went back, all the new ASTs would complain about the cards not being consistent and that it's a lot RNG to deal with.

While yes, the new system is consistent damage-wise and no card is really bad. The fishing is very much still there, just looking for perfect seals. It used to be an amazing feeling hitting Sleeve Draw but now it's just hatred and dread. It's an absolute chore to use and hopefully they fix it for controllers but it's pretty bad. The job loses its flavor and coming from old players, it's just a slap in the face.

I miss the old cards but SE will likely never go back. same for the fairy. They hate trying to solve healers and their answer is dull them down and homogenize their kits.

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Which, is why we can only wait in quiet frustration... Plus, the there is like the spaghetti code from 1.0 that no one really knows or has been explained in detail about, so unless they just like remake everything from scratch again...

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Originally Posted by MPNZ

Systems that mitigate RNG are implemented in or can be applied to very successful card based games through deck-building or card-counting, so outright elimination is totally not going to make everyone happy. But, limiting it as a resource through making royal road into a stack currency, and making Divination a fluctuating constant effect whose strength is affected by the seals active and negative for overusing too many cards of the same seal would leave players more likely to offset the value of certain cards by trade-offs to avoid negative returns through balance fishing (interesting mentally). And then increasing control through abilities to control rng and stabilization of the buff. It's potentially less frantic and more cerebral than like right now

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I don't totally oppose mitigating RNG, however my point is there would be less of a need to mitigate the RNG if every card had value in the first place.

Over the course of the expansion, I have seen some great suggestions for the cards and Divination. Many of those I feel would make AST much more enjoyable than it has ever been. Unfortunately, any rework that has one of those six cards a damage increase immediately dismisses the other five. In other words, the AST many players would like to have available to them cannot exist in the game as is. I know that sounds all doom n gloom, but it is an easy observation to make that is facilitated further with the direction the game has gone over the years.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Unfortunately, any rework that has one of those six cards a damage increase immediately dismisses the other five.

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I think you have to make every card have a (minor) damage increase—or no card have one—plus some more-powerful alternate effect which is more varied (and where which is "best" is situational).

As purely hypothetical examples (these would almost certainly not be remotely balanced; I'm throwing them up here off-the-cuff between work meetings):

• Arrow: Gives a +2% damage increase plus an +8% SpS/SkS buff to target for the duration of the card.
• Spear: Gives a +2% damage increase plus an +8% Crit buff to target for the duration of the card.
• Ewer: Gives a +2% damage increase plus halves the MP cost of every cast target makes for the duration of the card.
• Bole: Gives a +2% damage increase plus extends the duration of all timed beneficial status effects on the target (or applied while the card is active) by 20%.
• Spire: Gives a +2% damage increase plus decreases the duration of all timed detrimental status effects on the target (or applied while the card is active) by 20%.
• Balance: 'Locks' a card on the target, allowing a second card to be played on them without overwriting the first.

In this hypothetical, everything (except Balance) has a very small damage boost (so no one card 'wins' by being 'the one with the damage boost'), and there's still variety in what could be played. Bonus: time manipulation shenanigans with Bole and Spire.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Unfortunately, any rework that has one of those six cards a damage increase immediately dismisses the other five.

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The cards could become longer duration with a limit on how many are played at once. Let's say a maximum of 2 per card. Balance goes on the DPS obviously, and you'd have to pick something else for the tank and yourself. AST's support aspect would shift a little from constantly drawing cards to shuffling them across the party list.

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Originally Posted by Packetdancer

In this hypothetical, everything (except Balance) has a very small damage boost (so no one card 'wins' by being 'the one with the damage boost'), and there's still variety in what could be played. Bonus: time manipulation shenanigans with Bole and Spire.

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Spire is useless, Spear is card we want (AKA balance), Arrow for Black mage, Ewer for Black Mage, Bole's neat, Balance almost necessitates that we bring back spread.

Also Ewer is so busted, I don't think you really appreciate what that means. You'd effectively lock in Astrologian and Black Mage together, and feeding them every Ewer, let alone extending it with Bole, can push Black Mage's AF uptime from around 70% to 85-90% based purely on RNG, which translates into something absurd. I'd say a 15% increase is the absolute minimum.

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Originally Posted by Packetdancer

I think you have to make every card have a (minor) damage increase—or no card have one—plus some more-powerful alternate effect which is more varied (and where which is "best" is situational).

As purely hypothetical examples (these would almost certainly not be remotely balanced; I'm throwing them up here off-the-cuff between work meetings):

• Arrow: Gives a +2% damage increase plus an +8% SpS/SkS buff to target for the duration of the card.
• Spear: Gives a +2% damage increase plus an +8% Crit buff to target for the duration of the card.
• Ewer: Gives a +2% damage increase plus halves the MP cost of every cast target makes for the duration of the card.
• Bole: Gives a +2% damage increase plus extends the duration of all timed beneficial status effects on the target (or applied while the card is active) by 20%.
• Spire: Gives a +2% damage increase plus decreases the duration of all timed detrimental status effects on the target (or applied while the card is active) by 20%.
• Balance: 'Locks' a card on the target, allowing a second card to be played on them without overwriting the first.

In this hypothetical, everything (except Balance) has a very small damage boost (so no one card 'wins' by being 'the one with the damage boost'), and there's still variety in what could be played. Bonus: time manipulation shenanigans with Bole and Spire.

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your version of Spire could potentially be detrimental. shortening the duration of certain debuffs in refulgence for example would cause more harm then good.

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

your version of Spire could potentially be detrimental. shortening the duration of certain debuffs in refulgence for example would cause more harm then good.

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Wouldn't this also cause Doom to kill you faster? Or Walking Dead to end sooner?

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Originally Posted by Alteriius

Wouldn't this also cause Doom to kill you faster? Or Walking Dead to end sooner?

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Gotta risk it for the biscuit.