A list of non-healer supportive skills...should healers steal them?

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Originally Posted by RicaRuin

As a SMN, I'd even gift-wrap Physick for Healers. They can have it, sure, no use for us anyway.

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I wanna point out that it'd be redundant as SCH already has it and the other two have equivalents.

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

Okay I'm feeling like the Devil's advocate today and want to entertain the idea of removing (or tweaking so that they only work on the user) all the supportive skills form DPS and Tanks and having them be the domain of healers. As well as the side effects that this would entail.

I'm mainly looking at skills that (can) buff teammates and skills that can heal and res teammates. CC abilities and damage self buffs will be spared.
[LIST][*]Phys Ranged DPS: the changes will have the most apparent effects on them due to the whole "support tax" thing occurs mostly with them (though I think the real reason is due to mobility). The removal of the following would coincide with a potency increase for BRD and DNC.

• Role-wise: Peloton (movement speed increase outside combat)
• MCH: Tactician (an AoE defense buff with clones across the role).
• DNC: Shield Samba (See Tactician). Curing Waltz (Aoe Heal). Devilment (Crit buff). Dance Partner (which enables most of the skills o affect teammates, Devilment in particular). As well as the finish and Esprit buffs
• BRD: Wanderer's Minuit, Army's Paeon, Mages Ballad (all songs that increase the party's DPS), Warden's Paean (debuff remover), Battle Voice (Crit buff) and Nature's Minne (Healing buff)

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Only going to speak on physical ranged (DNC and BRD, mostly).

For DNC: Standard and Technical Finish are more than just the buff—it’s also a gimmick for the job. Removing the buff would one thing. Removing the skills themselves would basically make DNC not a DNC at that point, because what would you be using the steps to. Esprit is a DNC-only gimmick. They just give the Dance Partner (and party during Tech Finish) a “buff” that gives them (the DNC) additional Esprit generation per weaponskill used (in addition to their own passive generation per the DNC’s weaponskill, which was theorycrafted to be 20~30%). It’s not really a benefit/buff to the party, but to the DNC itself. I don’t think repurposing those things for healers would work. You’d have to overhaul the job at that point.

Same for BRD’s songs. They each give BRD access to certain skills: Pitch Perfect in Minuet, Bloodletter/Rain of Death procs in Mage’s, and a bleh skill speed increase in Army’s. Plus, they affect the ability for you to gain Soul Gauge to use Apex Arrow. You have to have a song active to gain Repertoire, which is what builds your Soul Gauge—and you need the gauge to use Apex. (As much as I hate that skill, I can’t exclude it from this.) Removing these from BRD would be more than just “taking away the buff and giving it to the healer”. You’d likely have to redesign BRD (again), and I think it’s been through enough overhauls. Battle Voice is whatever, since D.Hit isn’t the substat king.

MCH doesn’t have any party buffs. It’s selfish. Tactician is kind of whatever—healers have an equivalent to Tactician/Samba/Troubadour already anyways: Temperance for WHM, CU for AST, and Sacred Soil for SCH.

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

I wanna point out that it'd be redundant as SCH already has it and the other two have equivalents.

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Physick is actually an arcanist skill, that's why both smn and sch have it.

And no, I don't support this idea overall because the healing (and buff & debuff) skills/abilities that other jobs have are useful in soloing content and useful at times in group content.

My 2 gil.

YES.

Healers downtime should consist of marginal DPS and buffing / support actions. Let the DPS focus on DPS because Hydaelyn knows most of them NEVER touch their support actions.

When was the last time you actually saw a melee DPS use Feint? A Bard use Tactiican?

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

A Bard use Tactiican?

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My static's MCH uses Tactitian all the time for mitigation.

No we should not remove Support skills from other classes. Especially looking at RDM and DNC whose whole identity seem to revolve around the utility they bring to parties in addition to their DPS. Removing the support skills from other classes prevents the stacking of buffs and debuffs on a party- It's engaging for players to contribute to all aspects of a fight, that includes helping mitigate damage or buffing up other players.

Healers should be allowed to contribute to DPS with their spells and skills (Either through personal DPS, debuffs on targets or buffs on allies, which imo gives healers more variety.) In the same way, DPS should be allowed to contribute to Support-

Honestly, I like that DPS have options to help with mitigation. Every role has options to both help the party survive and the enemy not, just a matter of how much.

Honestly, I'd rather we just regain some of our old support skills instead of taking them from other classes first.
I really miss having Stella, Disable, Time Dilation, Stoneskin, Eye for an Eye, etc.

Many of them just added some nice flavour to the classes, and some unique animations.

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Originally Posted by Arillyn

Physick is actually an arcanist skill, that's why both smn and sch have it.

And no, I don't support this idea overall because the healing (and buff & debuff) skills/abilities that other jobs have are useful in soloing content and useful at times in group content.

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And yet SCH loses every single ACN skill other than the rez. Absolutely ridiculous if you ask me. If SMN needs physic because it comes from ACN, then SCH should get every other ability from ACN too.

Taking these skills from non healers would make them less to fun to play. What good is PLD if you're just mashing attacks? Support skills on DPS also help break some monotony and give you more ways to help party members. The game is also balanced around stacking buffs, so it's not like healers have to have the exclusive ability to buff or heal.

Was I the only one who read this post as a joke reaction to all of the "remove rescue from healers" threads lately?