Delete Clemency and Vercure

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Only if we can completely remove any and all dps skills from healers. They should be forced to heal only.

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That's a lot of dev work to redo quest to make them non-dps healer friendly. That not really an option.

.. you want skills removed because they're making you feel bad when people visibly don't trust you to do your job?

curious how you feel about bloodbath and 2nd wind?

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Originally Posted by SamRF

Edit: for those who don't know, Clemency and Vercure are PLD's and RDM's GCD (fairly strong) single target healing abilities.

I'm exaggerating with the title and am not convinced those abilities should be deleted yet, but hear me out:

Very insulting as healer if you see RDM or PLD use Clemency/Vercure when you have everything under control. You're maximizing your dps as healer and thus put in some effort to efficiently heal to extend party will survive only to see the dps gain get completely wasted by that Vercure/Clemency.
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What? A PLD using clemency allows a healer who can do more damage than a tank at times (especially in large pulls). If I see a PLD use clemency while I'm spamming holy I just keep doing what I'm doing.

No thanks.

I hate it when a tank is using Clemency when they're at like 80% health.... BUT I also would hate to not have it when I get a bad healer that is spamming Cure/Physick/Benefic when I'm at 10% health, and they refuse to use any of there off the global cooldowns or Cure II/Adloquim/Benefic II, and then it's "You pulled too much" :V

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Originally Posted by Tsukino

Those spells are essential to helping keep the identity of the jobs, which traditionally have the ability to heal people.

I do agree that it's annoying to waste a heal, but that happens with the other healer in full-party content sometimes anyway, and it's not a big enough problem to remove the things that make those jobs Final Fantasy jobs. Go too far in on MMO balance and efficiency and you get the homogeneous jobs across roles and bow mage BS that defined the 3.x era.

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Vercure isn't essential to red mage's identity and clemency doesn't need to be spell or a heal.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

.. you want skills removed because they're making you feel bad when people visibly don't trust you to do your job?

curious how you feel about bloodbath and 2nd wind?

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They're wrong with not trusting, they don't know which oGCD's the healer has ready. Unless healer let the party get wiped before.

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Originally Posted by Bsrking5

Vercure isn't essential to red mage's identity and clemency doesn't need to be spell or a heal.

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srry As much as I dislike final fantasy red mages. I have to agree with Tsukino

Vercure -is there white magic ability (that really is a real white mage real ability) for medic stuff (so that needs to stay)

As for Paladin- wish all all their holy spells were removed I wanted to play a knight sword/shield with no holy ability abilitys (and the real lack of any other jobs using a shield kind of force you to go down that path for that fantasy)

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Originally Posted by SamRF

They're wrong with not trusting, they don't know which oGCD's the healer has ready. Unless healer let the party get wiped before.

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eh you know when I was upping my warror the healer was dieing alot and I needed my self heals (plus honestly) there are moments where the healer gets chained up/stunned or slept by a games fight mecha so those self heals are honestly highly needed for those phases.

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Originally Posted by Bsrking5

That's a lot of dev work to redo quest to make them non-dps healer friendly. That not really an option.

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I think it was sarcasm =(

I would say Vercure is a good bit of flavour for the RDM though, people coming from FFXI will predominantly remember them as a healer/support and I'd argue that they were better off tanks than they were actual DPS in any vaguely relevant content.

Is this a troll thread?

Either way: No, thanks - I'd very much like to keep my Clemency to be able to still clear content even if the healer bites the dust. We actually got our E6 NM clear on tuesday thanks to that - the healers kept dying left and right and in the end (boss at ~7% or so) we had a warrior, a dragoon and my paladin still standing and still made it thanks to clemency.

I get that there are healers out there who have everything under control - but I've seen far more healers who dont and part of the reason I play paladin is that I'm not at their mercy. I'm willing to trust them and only clemency under extreme circumstances, but I'd like to keep doing that - its part of what makes my job fun and engaging to me.
The solution for your problem shouldnt be to take something away from those jobs, but rather to communicate to your party that they can trust your healing and that you have everything under control. A good paladin or RDM wont want to use their healing spells unless in dire need - and with a good healer they wont have to. There are enough moments though that this good healer isnt around - dead, afk, left the party or you outright got someone who lets you die to the last boss of the new dungeon after you trusted that they knew what they were doing...
Another solution for this problem would be to make healers more engaging again - not to take away from other jobs.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

They're wrong with not trusting, they don't know which oGCD's the healer has ready. Unless healer let the party get wiped before.

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So you're saying yourself that there are situations where someone is right to misstrust their healer - I can assure you that I've been in way more of those situations than I care to be in. On top of those moments where its not misstrusting the healer thats triggering the clemency but simply the healer not being present for one reason or another.

I've had enough scary bad healers that if my health starts dipping under 30% consistently, you can freaking bet I'm gonna start casting vercure no matter how "in control" the healer thinks they are. No offense intended. It's just less of a dps loss than eating dirt on the floor.