Dark Knight moving forward: Job change ideas for 6.0

Is not gutting dark mind, you still receive 20% mitigation against magic attacks while and added 10% mitigation against phisical attacks, then again DrK already has lots of mitigation so is a bit overkill.

I like the job idea, if anything i would make so FoS gives 30 sec of darkside while EoS gives 15 sec to have a faint darkside management weaving between the two in single combat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PeacefulEdge

Is not gutting dark mind, you still receive 20% mitigation against magic attacks while and added 10% mitigation against phisical attacks, then again DrK already has lots of mitigation so is a bit overkill.

I like the job idea, if anything i would make so FoS gives 30 sec of darkside while EoS gives 15 sec to have a faint darkside management weaving between the two in single combat.

---

No, the idea was 10% magic and 10% physical, which flat out guts the cooldown by cutting the magic mitigation in half just to add some half-ass physical mitigation that's entirely not needed, and you CANNOT add the 10% physical mitigation without cutting the magic mitigation because that would make DRK mitigation even stronger, and it's already the single best mitigation tank. TL;DR leave Dark Mind alone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lucy_Pyre

No, the idea was 10% magic and 10% physical, which flat out guts the cooldown by cutting the magic mitigation in half just to add some half-ass physical mitigation that's entirely not needed, and you CANNOT add the 10% physical mitigation without cutting the magic mitigation because that would make DRK mitigation even stronger, and it's already the single best mitigation tank. TL;DR leave Dark Mind alone.

---

Quote:

---

- Dark Mind is changed to split it between magic damage and all damage (reduces magic vulnerability by 10% and all damage by 10%), making it approximately the same effectiveness in magic damage scenarios but having it have a bit of use in physical damage scenarios, sort of like the opposite side of the coin from Camouflage.

---

the way he say it dark mind will have a 10% all purpose damage mitigation physical and magical +a 10% extra magical damage mitigation making it a 20% magical damage mitigation and a 10% against physical, wich will be extremly OP if the recast is not increased to acomodate the increased mitigation so for now its a direct sugested buff without downsides.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shao32

the way he say it dark mind will have a 10% all purpose damage mitigation physical and magical +a 10% extra magical damage mitigation making it a 20% magical damage mitigation and a 10% against physical, wich will be extremly OP if the recast is not increased to acomodate the increased mitigation so for now its a direct sugested buff without downsides.

---

Or, here's an even better idea, leave the cooldown as is. As I have beaten to death by this point, Dark Knight has more than enough physical damage mitigation as things currently stand, and altering Dark Mind just at some unnecessary attempt to make the cooldown more globally useful is nothing short of a bad idea, because no matter how you go about it the only way to keep that change from being broken is to in some fashion reduce the magic damage mitigation's effectiveness; whether this be through cutting the mitigation value or increasing the cooldown of the ability itself. Whichever way you go about it, it guts Dark Mind's magical damage effectiveness for absolutely zero reason whatsoever, all for some extra physical mitigation that's not needed. Rampart, Shadow Wall, Reprisal, TBN (and Arm's Length for non-bosses). The job has more than enough options and tools to mitigate physical damage. Dark Mind is strictly regulated to magical damage mitigation, and it does an excellent job at what it is designed for. Leave the cooldown alone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lucy_Pyre

Or, here's an even better idea, leave the cooldown as is. As I have beaten to death by this point, Dark Knight has more than enough physical damage mitigation as things currently stand, and altering Dark Mind just at some unnecessary attempt to make the cooldown more globally useful is nothing short of a bad idea, because no matter how you go about it the only way to keep that change from being broken is to in some fashion reduce the magic damage mitigation's effectiveness; whether this be through cutting the mitigation value or increasing the cooldown of the ability itself. Whichever way you go about it, it guts Dark Mind's magical damage effectiveness for absolutely zero reason whatsoever, all for some extra physical mitigation that's not needed. Rampart, Shadow Wall, Reprisal, TBN (and Arm's Length for non-bosses). The job has more than enough options and tools to mitigate physical damage. Dark Mind is strictly regulated to magical damage mitigation, and it does an excellent job at what it is designed for. Leave the cooldown alone.

---

ppl just want dark mind become less situational and i can't blame them, current dark mind status can make DRK magical ok and weak against physical or magical op and ok on physical a problem that have been there since HW, dark mind itself is not ok saddly and the overall balance of current DRK mitigation kit is busted since without dark mind DRK can compete and surpass WAR and GNB on physical even whit those having more coldowns and more important universal against all kind of damage and that's shouln't be the case, making dark mind have some kind of physical damage and his recast being properly increased will make DRK more balanced and still have his unique perk, ppl won't have to scratch her head trying to figure what is magical and what is not and we wont see more TEA situations where DRK basically is broken there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lucy_Pyre

Which is terrible. The cooldown is perfectly fine as is and, as I already stated, DRK has plenty of physical mitigation already. Leave DM alone rather than gutting its intended use just to add some half ass "generic" use, when that generic use isn't needed.

---

I’ll take generic. Damage specific cds are played out. It doesn’t add flavor of any kind. HW PLD rings a bell in this regard

Dark Knight is NOT weak against physical damage, and people need to get this twisted & warped mentality out of their heads. It's the single best tank against all damage types when it comes to mitigation, it just happens to be even stronger against high magical damage than it already is against physical because of Dark Mind. However, this does not mean that it's weak against physical damage. It just means that it's even stronger against magical because Dark Mind exists. This doesn't mean that Dark Mind needs to be altered in any way, because frankly, the cooldowns of the job are all perfectly fine. Leave them as they currently are. There is merit to wanting Delirium to be changed, but that's really about the only thing that I can agree on with Dark Knight that needs major or even really minor altering.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lucy_Pyre

Dark Knight is NOT weak against physical damage, and people need to get this twisted & warped mentality out of their heads. It's the single best tank against all damage types when it comes to mitigation, it just happens to be even stronger against high magical damage than it already is against physical because of Dark Mind. However, this does not mean that it's weak against physical damage. It just means that it's even stronger against magical because Dark Mind exists. This doesn't mean that Dark Mind needs to be altered in any way, because frankly, the cooldowns of the job are all perfectly fine. Leave them as they currently are. There is merit to wanting Delirium to be changed, but that's really about the only thing that I can agree on with Dark Knight that needs major or even really minor altering.

---

Maybe I didn't expressed my self properly, I didn't mean to say current DRK is weaker against physical damage, what I want to say current DRK kit put the job on 2 possible situations aka weaker against physical and comparable on magical to other tanks or comparable on physical and busted on magical like right now, current DRK is this last one but DRK in the past was on the first situation a lot, after the buffs of 4.3 DRK was way to strong on mitigation in omega.

So to the point dark mind needs to be touched, DRK mitigation kit is busted we all know that and against magical TB the job is beyond broken thanks in great part to dark mind + TBN so yeah for the sake of balance dark mind needs to be nerfed to avoid being abused like it's currently being done and changed a bit to DRK no longer have to be in the situation of being weak on physical or to busted on magical without middle term.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shao32

Maybe I didn't expressed my self properly, I didn't mean to say current DRK is weaker against physical damage, what I want to say current DRK kit put the job on 2 possible situations aka weaker against physical and comparable on magical to other tanks or comparable on physical and busted on magical like right now, current DRK is this last one but DRK in the past was on the first situation a lot, after the buffs of 4.3 DRK was way to strong on mitigation in omega.

So to the point dark mind needs to be touched, DRK mitigation kit is busted we all know that and against magical TB the job is beyond broken thanks in great part to dark mind + TBN so yeah for the sake of balance dark mind needs to be nerfed to avoid being abused like it's currently being done and changed a bit to DRK no longer have to be in the situation of being weak on physical or to busted on magical without middle term.

---

I understand that tbn + dm is powerful but isn't that appropriate when considering the strengths and weaknesses within the ranking role? DRK is by most accounts meant to be the lead in mitigation which is why dm having no physical mitigation aspect to it is strange. You wouldn’t make NF (or another stand-in self-sustain tool) ineffective in 50% (or whatever percent physical to magical attacks there are), same goes for PLDs utility, or GNBs dps. It’s a unique strength to their class to make them stand apart.

Mitigation is DRKs strength this expansion so it makes no sense to have DM gimped (especially when their self-sustain has been nerfed beyond recognition).

I'd like to join the Dark Mind discussion a bit and offer my own insight on this subject.

Dark Mind is situational, but not weak. With a CD of 60s and a duration of 10s it is between Rampart and Shadow Wall regarding total uptime accross a fight and generally more available than the other two. For its "niche", it is powerful beyond doubt.

Previous to the 5.1 tank changes, I'd have said that Dark Mind could indeed have 10% general 10% magical mitigation split (resulting in 10% on physical / mechanical mitigation and 19% magical mitigation) to deal with dungeons and mobpacks easier, however with the change to Shadow Wall (duration: 10s -> 15s) and Reprisal (duration: 5s -> 10s + AOE) paired with Arm's Length being added to tanks with 5.0, DRK even without TBN is perfectly fine for trashpull mitigation. Other tanks may or may not have a bit more at certain levels, but with Rampart, Shadow Wall, Reprisal, Arm's Length and Abyssal Drain you got every dungeon covered. If a dungeon happens to have caster-type enemies, thats where you get your bonus.

Raids & Trials are a different can of worms. Looking statistically + speaking from personal experience, there is only a handful of fights where you get no or negligible value out of Dark Mind. To keep in mind a few facts:
1.) most raidwide attacks are magical. High value if you also get auto-attacked (Tumults in P3 of E4S) or the raidwide follows up directly with a buster (regardless if magical or physical)
2.) a large quantity of tankbusters per tier are magical. The only fights that use no magical busters are Susano EX, Halicarnassus O3S and Midgardsormr O10S, all of which have either magical raidwides, magical autoattacks (Midgardsormr) or even both.

To my personal knowledge, there isn't a single fight where every mitigatable damage (autos, raidwide, busters) is purely physical.

What would be beneficial however would be knowing which attacks are magical and which are not. It is easier to find out if an attack is physical due to Parry proccing, but it is not possible to see it being magical / dark (mechanical) unless you test and compare the damage numbers.

TL;DR: Dark Mind is fine as is, especially due to the 5.1 tank buffs.