Recent Developments of TOS Actions Taken

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Originally Posted by Alaray

It's a bit different when it's not a real life identity (which you can be banned for having on your stream of someone who didn't give permission), but even if a streamer went through all the steps they could to minimize the information, people can still find the information extremely easily -- namely, just going to FFlogs and looking up the parse from the encounter (that someone else in the party may have uploaded). While yes mitigating the possibility is good practice, it doesn't 100% solve the issue of people taking things into their own hands. And, in the latter case, the people who are taking actions into their own hands and actively going after a player, are the people who should be actioned.

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You are right. It's shared responsibility, not 100% on either person.

That said, when a streamer has setup a special scene in their broadcast software that enlarges the insult target's name and draws special attention with extra animation and sounds... well, let's just say this isn't what I would call one of the very grey area cases? It's hard to not see that as encouraging the behavior, at least a little bit.

It would be a very different story if he only showed initials or blurred the name or similar. If someone is really determined to find out who that was, they could yes, but then the broadcaster would have done what they can to mitigate it over the medium they control. The broadcaster doesn't control FF logs, of course.

Also if the broadcaster had just kicked, blacklisted, and moved on, it'd have been a nonissue.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I would say that I am less concerned about “slippery slope” and more concerned about cherry-picking situations for punishment. In other words: punishments still being as thoroughly inconsistent has they have always seemed, but now expanded to include evidence from third-party media...Except when it’s suddenly “too inconvenient” to take into account third-party evidence for specific reports.

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Pretty much and bots are a perfect example. Now they opened the door to anyone breaking the TOS, this includes modding, in a third party website can be reported.

Fun times are coming ahead of us since I'm 100% positive that people are going to use this in order to ban others.

Edit: Oh, I also forgot to mention all those FC selling clears for real money using Discord. Not banned because "outisde the game".

While I can understand people being concerned about SE suspending accounts based on things that happen outside the game, I also don't see a problem with how SE responded to this. When someone who is possibly considering playing FFXIV goes into a stream and sees a streamer repeatedly bashing someone for their skills or play style, that can turn the potential player away from the game forever. What game development company *wants* to have customers who act like the streamer did? How is that good for the community or for the business? Rants like that should be kept private.

It's not difficult to avoid a "slippery slope" or "grey line" when it comes to being in groups or avoiding suspensions or bans. Just don't act like an ass toward people. Think before you speak. Don't buy or sell gil. Don't sell your account. These are basic concepts which is why the vast majority of players are never suspended or banned.

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Originally Posted by goob

While I can understand people being concerned about SE suspending accounts based on things that happen outside the game, I also don't see a problem with how SE responded to this. When someone who is possibly considering playing FFXIV goes into a stream and sees a streamer repeatedly bashing someone for their skills or play style, that can turn the potential player away from the game forever. What game development company *wants* to have customers who act like the streamer did? How is that good for the community or for the business? Rants like that should be kept private.

It's not difficult to avoid a "slippery slope" or "grey line" when it comes to being in groups or avoiding suspensions or bans. Just don't act like an ass toward people. Think before you speak. Don't buy or sell gil. Don't sell your account. These are basic concepts which is why the vast majority of players are never suspended or banned.

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If you are going to enforce the TOS outside the game you do it for all cases.

Well there's a tool in game that if you disagree with the play style of someone you can break the bonds and give good bye.
But instead, people prefer to behave as a human in their early years and shame...
For me they did right. It was clear that the matter was not the parser but the behavior of said player.
Education, culture and posture. Gotta catch'em all.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

If you are going to enforce the TOS outside the game you do it for all cases.

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If you see something that you think violates the TOS, report it.

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Originally Posted by goob

If you see something that you think violates the TOS, report it.

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Like with the people selling clears or confessing having bots but since the conversation was on Discord can't be used as valid proof because "third party program"?

Edit: Let me add that the streamer, like many others, was beyond stupid and deserve a punishment coming his way from Twitch and not from SE, since this person never used the chat.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

Like with the people selling clears or confessing having bots but since the conversation was on Discord can't be used as valid proof becouse "third party program"?

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Was it reported? Could SE identify using game data that the person used bots or sold clears?

In the case of the video, the evidence of the TOS violation was blatantly obvious.

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Originally Posted by goob

Was it reported? Could SE identify using game data that the person used bots or sold clears?

In the case of the video, the evidence of the TOS violation was blatantly obvious.

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Why for one thing in-game data is needed but for the streamer the video was enough?

Is not obvious enough that people selling content but requesting to join discord to discuss pricing are doing it for real money?

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Originally Posted by AmurT

I dunno why you're telling me that I can unsub.

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just the usual "consume, dont ask" mentality.