[Spoilers] I'm getting sick of shonen manga power-ups each arc

There was another thread a while back dealing with the topic of Ran'jit and his OP-ness. Just to save folks from having to rehash old arguments, you can find a lot of interesting discussion there on the topic.

Personally, I was a lot more pleased with him than Zenos. Ran'jit feels a lot more like he's EARNED his place as an unstoppable force, through a century of warfare and hardship. Zenos got it through boredom and natural talent.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RylaBee

PS: I hope SE learned something with this, and will not make our boy Zenos another lazy plot-boy.

---

Missed the boat on that one! Zenos was the ORIGINAL lazy plot-boy. And it's only gotten worse. There's no saving him from that fate, I'm afraid!

I liked Ran'jit. If anything, he was underused - but then I think Eulmore should've played a bit of a larger role in 5.0 overall to better explain his motives and reasoning.

...and honestly, if the protagonists are going to be written with plot armour at almost every turn then there's no reason why the antagonists shouldn't get to enjoy that same treatment to a lesser degree. Personally I'm hoping that the 'Echo' and 'Blessing of Light' are removed at some point in the immediate future so we can go back to being an adventurer, though that's probably too big a wish when the plot seems set for grander and grander stakes each time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jandor

If you did something in a party, then you had help.

---

It can be argued that this is simply for gameplay mechanics, even the lore book more than often states that the WOL did it alone and only in a few examples (the two 50 MSQ dungeons) do they mention more than one person. It also would not make sense in a lot of instances to have adventurers with you.

The english version really liked to make jokes about that in stormblood, but the german version was mostly free from that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

Personally I'm hoping that the 'Echo' and 'Blessing of Light' are removed at some point in the immediate future so we can go back to being an adventurer, though that's probably too big a wish when the plot seems set for grander and grander stakes each time.

---

Honestly it would have been much better if the first few expansion had us still being a normal adventurer. But after defeating Omega and other world ending monsters it would feel really bad (for me) to just be like another adventurer again. Also the echo does not give us a power up, it just stops us from being tempered and to understand stuff, and we already got our blessing of light removed which did not make us any weaker. The WoL without them would still need a huge nerf to be anywhere near normal level and why should they do that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alleo

It can be argued that this is simply for gameplay mechanics, even the lore book more than often states that the WOL did it alone and only in a few examples (the two 50 MSQ dungeons) do they mention more than one person. It also would not make sense in a lot of instances to have adventurers with you.

The english version really liked to make jokes about that in stormblood, but the german version was mostly free from that.

---

In-game, in the English version at least, it is often outright stated in your journal entries that you had help.

It's kept out of the way, you can comfortably head-canon it as you and you alone doing these things (and I'll concede, in quite a few cases it would make more sense,) but it's said often enough in-game that I think it's reasonable to assume that the default position is that if you're in a party, then you are actually, canonically, in a party.

I also think it's interesting that the devs created Trusts at the same time as the story moved to a location where your "adventurer friends" coming along with you would be even more of a stretch than it normally is. ;)

While the overall story of FFXIV isn't bad, ShB was esp. good, its not because the story is new or fresh, in fact its mostly boring tropes and recycled story, the ascians and garlemald have overstayed their welcome going on 10 years as antagonists (much like the allagans for everything not ascian related). And, for a final fantasy game, this game has shockingly bland and boring characters.

The only thing that keeps us talking are the new characters they introduce, the bad thing about that is that the good characters who could have some of the most interesting story arcs and would make the best antagonists they have a tendency to kill off sooner rather than later. Emet Selch and Yotsuyo come to mind the quickest. And others like Fordola and Estinian, they could do a lot with in both an antagonistic and protagonist aspect, but they don't. With Emet gone the story could go down in flames fast, and if 5.1 was any indication, its already headed that way. 5.1 was one of the worst msq patches we have had yet when it comes to story imo.

The majority of the characters are, however, quite boring or cringy. Zenos in particular is poorly written and just a cringy, entitled rich kid archetype that really is only there to be there. Zenos, in particular, feels like he was ripped out of middle school fanfic that is bad/cringy even for middle school fanfic. Yet, here he comes again.

The scions are boring, none of them have any internal conflicts they grapple with or go beyond the most superficial and all they want to do is sacrifice themselves for the greater good, which is a beyond tired good guy trope. They have no character development and are really just 1 dimensional. The only way they have changed is that they became more bitter (thancred esp) and in some cases (y'shtola) more arrogant. But all that does is makes them less likable.

I could do a long rant about how poorly written the characters are and how SE is falling back on the most lazy tropes for their story but I won't, cause its really not worth the effort. But my point is, Ranjit didn't get a treatment that was unlike any other. It's just the same ol same ol but this time with that cheesy martial arts film veneer that made him stick out just a bit more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Personally, I was a lot more pleased with him than Zenos. Ran'jit feels a lot more like he's EARNED his place as an unstoppable force, through a century of warfare and hardship. Zenos got it through boredom and natural talent.

---

I swear, Zenos is reminding me of Rey from Star Wars. She has no idea what she's doing with her life yet she manifests new powers at random with no training to the point of being grossly overpowered.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jandor

In-game, in the English version at least, it is often outright stated in your journal entries that you had help.

---

And in the german version its often not that case and seeing how the lore book states the solo parts too and a lot if makes no sense if people are with us I do head canon that we are alone most of the time. Even in shadowbringers we have the fights against Innocenz and Titania where no trusts were helping us and its not really possible to have adventure friends. I wonder if its still part of the english version to talk about a group there.

Anyway we always just fight Ranjit in solo instances and still somehow were able to beat him with barely any training and we also got worse towards the end thanks to all the light. I just dont find such enemies interesting, at least not when they are done in that way. Have them be sneaky and take us down through other unfair means and it makes at least a bit more sense that we suddenly are able to beat him easily.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atmaweapon510

...

---

You fought dragons. He's empowered by one.

You fought some whimpy imperial platoons. He fought light wardens and vast, overwhelming armies of sin-eaters.

Shouldn't he be stronger than you?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Missed the boat on that one! Zenos was the ORIGINAL lazy plot-boy. And it's only gotten worse. There's no saving him from that fate, I'm afraid!

---

Again, why would a guy with effectively the same blessing, all the best tutors and equipment, a ton more combat experience, and way more battle-thirst be weaker than us?

Is it just because we're the protagonist? If so, that expectation of complete and immediate plot armor seems a larger betrayal than the mere fact that we might otherwise have to deal with foes stronger than ourselves.

Magic Lightning Pressure Point Attack!

You are now unable to move, imma beat your face in now.

-LATER-

Magic Lightning Pressure Point Attack! ...wait, why isn't it working this time? Hey where are you going? ACK DAMN YOU RESCUE! *Falls down a pit* HAH! The cat yeeted herself into the lifestream to survive the fall, but i have MAGIC MARTIAL ARTS TO BREAK MY FALL LOL!

-LATER-

Sneaky Thancred to the face, retreat!

-LATER-

ACK NONE OF MY ATTACKS ARE WORKING! AHHH! THE WOD IS EATING MY FACE! *Dies*


That's pretty much what the whole Ran'jit thing looked like to me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alleo

And in the german version its often not that case and seeing how the lore book states the solo parts too and a lot if makes no sense if people are with us I do head canon that we are alone most of the time. Even in shadowbringers we have the fights against Innocenz and Titania where no trusts were helping us and its not really possible to have adventure friends. I wonder if its still part of the english version to talk about a group there.

---

-----

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ravana

As Ysayle sinks to her knees, defeated, the triumphant god's eyes alight on you. Take to the field and match your prowess against the self-proclaimed Conqueror of the World!

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bismark

You inform Wedge that you are ready to hunt the white whale. Board the Enterprise with your companions and rid the Sea of Clouds of Bismarck's ravenous presence.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thordan

Judgment passed, the self-proclaimed god king duly turns to leave, but not before issuing you a challenge. Answer it, and put an end to his madness once and for all.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Susano

How fortunate that you had the wisdom and foresight to invite several of your fellow adventurers on this journey to the Far East, and how kind they were to agree to help you torment the Red Kojin, for no single warrior, no matter how blessed or powerful, could ever hope to slay a primal on her own, despite what some wandering minstrels would have you believe.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lakshmi

Either way, her failure has left you with no recourse but to meet the primal in single combat─ably abetted by the goodly adventurers who you had the wisdom and foresight to summon to Djanan Qhat in anticipation of this outcome.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shinryu

Nor is he mistaken. For if you and your comrades─those stalwart yet humble adventurers who have stood by you from first to last─do not stop Zenos yae Galvus...no one will.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Titania

At the arrival of the bearer of all four relics, the seal protecting the castle is broken. All that remains is to venture inside and confront the light-corrupted king of the faeries, Titania.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Innocence

As you approach Vauthry's private sanctuary, he unleashes a horde of sin eaters upon you. While your comrades keep the creatures at bay, you must press on to fulfill your mission's objective: striking down the final Lightwarden.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hades

But then Ardbert is there at your side, and with his hand at your back, you find the strength to take another step. Emet-Selch's disbelief is compounded as the Exarch appears and intones a spell to bring you further reinforcements. Now enraged beyond measure, the Ascian casts aside his mortal form, and reveals to you his true name─Hades.

---

For Bismark, Susano, Lakshmi, Shinryu and Hades it's stated that you have people with you.

Thordan is ambiguous but leaning towards having help IMHO. Leaving, giving you time to prep and all that.

Ravana and Titania are also ambiguous but leaning more towards being solo. Though should be noted there is a friendly NPC in Ravana's cave who if you speak to him tells you that you can sneak out and go get some help.

Innocence reads pretty explicitly as a solo venture to me.

It leads me to believe that the devs have been thinking of the WoL as the leader of a group for a while, and decided to really make a point of mentioning it in SB because they wanted to be explicit about the fact that you're not a total solo powerhouse.

-----

Interestingly enough, IIRC SB outright mentions adventurer friends, comrades, etc. for every trial it has, except for Tsukuyomi, which is one of the rare instances of them not just hinting, but outright stating that you faced her alone.