[Suggestion] Trick attack cooldown scalling with Skill Speed

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Originally Posted by Shalfu

You cannot reduce those skills further down than 1.5.

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You can. See Meditation.

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Originally Posted by Shalfu

and if you reduce the mudra recast, you are punishing the high ping players for no reason.

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At 20% SkS, a whopping 7k+ stat, you'd have reduced acceptable ping from its current maximum of 250 to... 200. 50 ms effect on a very small span of the playerbase, in order to allow for perfect sync for the 80+% of players at or beneath 200 ms ping.

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Originally Posted by Shalfu

The weaving space between a Ninjutsu and a normal GCD is exactly 0.8, 0.7 would be taken by the animation of the ogcd you wanna get in between them, so its only 0.1 room for ping to take place.

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Which means it can already only support 50 ms of ping. Why then have a weave space there at all? That defeats the purpose of the whole change. Get rid of it, allowing for perfect sync, and just don't wait until Trick Attack to hit Suiton. Our Ninjutsu will always outpace our Trick Attack regardless, due to casting Suiton on pull but waiting until a later GCD to actually use it. You do NOT need to use TA immediately after Ninjutsu.

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Originally Posted by Shalfu

Trick attack recast time adjusted to sks will not affect high ping or lower ping.

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By doing nearly nothing for either side. There are fixed GCD intervals, even given complete adherence to an optimal rotation, that currently allow for a perfectly timed Trick Attack. Scaling TA, rather than the things actually causing the desync, merely changes those intervals. Unless we are suddenly forced to stack SkS despite its low relative weight past entry gear, it's not going to add a single interval to that list, only change where they are.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

You can. See Meditation.

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You just read the part you wanted to read, keep reading for the reason why you cannot reduce it.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

At 20% SkS, a whopping 7k+ stat, you'd have reduced acceptable ping from its current maximum of 250 to... 200. 50 ms effect on a very small span of the playerbase, in order to allow for perfect sync for the 80+% of players at or beneath 200 ms ping.

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Ninja has huton effect, which is already 15% sks. Again, keep reading on the post to see why i give the reason.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Which means it can already only support 50 ms of ping. Why then have a weave space there at all? That defeats the purpose of the whole change. Get rid of it, allowing for perfect sync, and just don't wait until Trick Attack to hit Suiton

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No, it supports 100ms players. Clearly you don't know what im talking about if you think we are waiting for trick to come out of cooldown to use suiton.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

By doing nearly nothing for either side. There are fixed GCD intervals, even given complete adherence to an optimal rotation, that currently allow for a perfectly timed Trick Attack. Scaling TA, rather than the things actually causing the desync, merely changes those intervals. Unless we are suddenly forced to stack SkS despite its low relative weight past entry gear, it's not going to add a single interval to that list, only change where they are.

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No, they arent fixed intervals when there is a fixed amount of time tied to ninjutsus and another fraction of time tied to variable gcd values.

I'm also the designer of the current ninja opener and rotation, trust me, i know a thing or two about the job.


I invite you to play ninja once, stopwatch on the Battle tab the time for your trick and compare for yourself that this last statement you made is not possible. Since it seems you haven't played it before, or atleast, since the changes had happened or without trying to perform an optimal rotation.

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Originally Posted by Shalfu

Ninja has huton effect, which is already 15% sks. Again, keep reading on the post to see why i give the reason.

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SkS =/= Attack Speed. TA need not scale itself around the common GCD, only by how much that GCD will be further varied by gear.

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Originally Posted by Shalfu

No, it supports 100ms players.

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So I thought, too, until I saw the current research on ping-based uptime loss. It's double the ping. The allowable latency is half the remaining GCD gap. Just as the fact that GCDs let us queue (and more importantly, query) .5 seconds early only allows us 250 ms of ping before penalty. Else a 500 ms ping player would still be spamming away at GCDs just as quickly as you do. ...They don't.

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Originally Posted by Shalfu

No, they arent fixed intervals when there is a fixed amount of time tied to ninjutsus and another fraction of time tied to variable gcd values.

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Yes, they are. The only thing that would make it not so is to follow a different rotation or lost uptime. Given the same rotation, as strictly given in my statement, the intervals allowing for a perfectly time TA are fixed to the same extent any other oGCD in the game is.

Ok why is everyone thinking attack speed is a skill speed or spell speed these are two extremely different things stop labeling as the same. 15% Sps/Sks is a tiny compare to 15% Attack speed. STOP MISLEADING people

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

SkS =/= Attack Speed. TA need not scale itself around the common GCD, only by how much that GCD will be further varied by gear.

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It doesnt vary just by gear but also in which step of the rotation you are, as explained on the OP. There are 2 different timers in which you cannot find a correct GCD tier to perfectly fit in the two of them the trick attack without clipping your gcd or delaying trick.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

So I thought, too, until I saw the current research on ping-based uptime loss. It's double the ping. The allowable latency is half the remaining GCD gap. Just as the fact that GCDs let us queue (and more importantly, query) .5 seconds early only allows us 250 ms of ping before penalty. Else a 500 ms ping player would still be spamming away at GCDs just as quickly as you do. ...They don't.

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you are mistaken how gcd and ogcd works

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Yes, they are. The only thing that would make it not so is to follow a different rotation or lost uptime. Given the same rotation, as strictly given in my statement, the intervals allowing for a perfectly time TA are fixed to the same extent any other oGCD in the game is.

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I'm not really a fan of repeating myself. Try the class and show me your findings, because i really think you are not speaking from experience here but feelings.

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Originally Posted by Jukebox12

Ok why is everyone thinking attack speed is a skill speed or spell speed these are two extremely different things stop labeling as the same. 15% Sps/Sks is a tiny compare to 15% Attack speed. STOP MISLEADING people

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Huton has an effect of reducing your weaponskill recast time by 15%, it wouldn't affect trick unless trick is made a Weaponskill on the ogcd.

That said, Shadow Fang does get his cd reduced from Huton and SKS as its a weaponskill, bringing it to a comfortable 59.08seconds of recast time which will never make you clip your gcd or delay shadow fang to fit a 60s rotation, whereas trick, it is current state does.

I'm just asking to have the same treatment as Shadow Fang has for Trick attack so we can have a smoother rotation.

And since i ask for proofs, here is mine

https://i.imgur.com/Cwaoxbb.png

this is what happens with trick when you dont clip your gcd to recast it as soon as you can

http://bit.ly/NIN-Rotation

and there is the work we made on the rotation itself where you can see, adjust for yourself, and try as many combinations as you want to see that trick doesnt fit current gcd sks tiers with ninjutsus.
On that sheet, you can check the column of trick attack cd, from there, you can assume you can cast trick attack if the previous action has next to it trick attack cd being lower than 1.4, if its not lower than 1.4. (gcd time -0.7 from gcd animation lock leaves 1.4s of room to cast trick) you will be clipping your gcd unless you use another GCD before trick.

I could aswell link you all the sheet variations that i made to test that out https://i.imgur.com/cQ2nVgI.png But i think its beyond the point.

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Originally Posted by Shalfu

really dumb.

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Why did yea quote me when you just answered my quote for me

Also if hutoun effect the cooldown of ta ta would need to be nerf alot

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Originally Posted by Jukebox12

Also if hutoun effect the cooldown of ta ta would need to be nerf alot

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It's not a nerf if give trick attack weaponskill treatment but on the ogcd, make it 70s instead of 60, it will come down to 59.08s after huton and skill speed, which is exactly what SF does at the moment.
That will solve its clipping/drifting issues without affecting anything/anyone but smoother gameplay of the job. This has been made before, Check Empyreal arrow during Stormblood.

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Originally Posted by Shalfu

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It is 60 secs which is good enough why do that