Something doesn't add up regarding the connection between Amdapor and Norvrandt...

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Originally Posted by geekgirl101

and what should we meet with at the end of the Crystallum? A powerful sin eater capable of summoning both Light and Dark lesser sin eaters.

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It's not a sin eater, it's an Amdapori golem that somehow happens to be identical to one. (Note that it remains as a stone statue after the battle is over.)

Also worth noting in the hard dungeon: in the area leading down to what was originally Diabolos' arena (named "the Arrested Darkness") we encounter several "Rift Dragons".

From what they said in the recent live letter about having settled on their plans for Shadowbringers by around 3.4, the idea would have been coming together when the Lost City hard dungeon came out in 3.2 - though I'm not sure how far in advance they'd be working on a patch dungeon.

There is a good chance that sin eaters have occurred in minor manifestations on other worlds, nothing anywhere near as prevalent as on the First though of course. Ascian involvement makes it very plausible that the Ampadori were set up with visions of sin eaters to promote the mage wars. This all makes sense.

That said, it seems clear there is still an awful lot we don't know about Ampador and Mhachi. I'm rather hoping that we get more information about it because as far as we've seen there has only been one of the lion sin eaters, and the Ampadori recreated it exactly. We've only seen the one, which makes it appear to be either exceptionally rare or even unique. As we don't know how sin eaters choose the forms they take when they are initially corrupted and transformed, we're left with the question, did the Ampadori see this lion in particular or have there been others on other worlds?

An answer to that question alone would answer many others, including whether they were able to peer into the future or not.

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Originally Posted by Hezzlocks

That said, it seems clear there is still an awful lot we don't know about Ampador and Mhachi. I'm rather hoping that we get more information about it because as far as we've seen there has only been one of the lion sin eaters, and the Ampadori recreated it exactly. We've only seen the one, which makes it appear to be either exceptionally rare or even unique.

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There were in fact at least 2 Forgiven Cruelty. Though the parts of the Shadowbringers CGI trailer/opening involving derplander, the exarch and the Crystarium are fabrications for the sake of presentation, the scenes of Urianger and Y'shtola in the burning Greatwood, and Thancred and Minfillia(Ryne) facing off against the winged lion in Eulmore, are indeed canon and referenced within the MSQ itself. If you take Thancred or Ryne as trusts in Mt Gulg, Thancred will reference the first boss as 'another lion', while Ryne will say 'this time (she) wont just be hiding'.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

It's not a sin eater, it's an Amdapori golem that somehow happens to be identical to one. (Note that it remains as a stone statue after the battle is over.)

Also worth noting in the hard dungeon: in the area leading down to what was originally Diabolos' arena (named "the Arrested Darkness") we encounter several "Rift Dragons".

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The Rift Dragons did in deed capture my attention, making me question whether this hinted that the Amdapori mages were perhaps meddling at opening rifts. This springs to mind the 2 mages on the First who were being taught how to open up rifts, I forget their names.

My theory on the final bosses at the dungeon were that they were perhaps sin eaters at one time and once they had expended their energies turned into stone, but I got nothing to back that theory up so I was maybe wrong about it. There's not a huge amount of detail about what happened during the Fifth Astra Era that I could find other than it was a time when Eorzeans first discovered magic and were dabbling with black magic, whilst mages in Adampor developed white magic in order to counter them. What I didn't do was look up and read up about the following era, the Sixth Umbral Era, which explained the use of void magic, where Diabolos came from, and a fair amount of detail in what caused the era to end. I guess I should've really done my homework a lot more than I did and not just relied on the one source I was using last night that didn't give me much to go by.

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Originally Posted by MrThinker

There were in fact at least 2 Forgiven Cruelty. Though the parts of the Shadowbringers CGI trailer/opening involving derplander, the exarch and the Crystarium are fabrications for the sake of presentation, the scenes of Urianger and Y'shtola in the burning Greatwood, and Thancred and Minfillia(Ryne) facing off against the winged lion in Eulmore, are indeed canon and referenced within the MSQ itself. If you take Thancred or Ryne as trusts in Mt Gulg, Thancred will reference the first boss as 'another lion', while Ryne will say 'this time (she) wont just be hiding'.

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I was under the assumption that that was the same lion Thancred fought. I didn't have Ryne with me when I did Gulg in a trust but I did have Thancred, and I'm certain he said "This fellow again" and then once I killed it "Nice to finally settle the score on that one", which to me sounds like he didn't beat it in the CGI trailer but rather escaped from it

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Originally Posted by Hezzlocks

I was under the assumption that that was the same lion Thancred fought. I didn't have Ryne with me when I did Gulg in a trust but I did have Thancred, and I'm certain he said "This fellow again" and then once I killed it "Nice to finally settle the score on that one", which to me sounds like he didn't beat it in the CGI trailer but rather escaped from it

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Huh, it has been a while since I first ran gulg, so I may have misremembered that quote.

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Originally Posted by TankHunter678

Given the existence of Eden, one of the Guardian Forces the Ancients created for combating the calamity they faced based on the Akadaemia Anyder notes, on the First and that it may have been slumbering on the First ever since the Sundering on top of Eden being credited as being the Original Sin Eater it may have had some Sin Eaters in the immediate area around where it slept before the overflowing light woke it back up. This would mean that at any point in time an Ascian could have setup a vision for one of the Amdapori to let them peer through the barrier and see these Sin Eaters. The goal obviously being to give the Amdapori a means to take the fight to Mhachi and their voidsent. With open war being possible it sets the stage for the War of the Mages and the calamity it sparked to follow.

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Where did you see that information on Eden?

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Originally Posted by Quor

Where did you see that information on Eden?

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The raid storyline identified Eden as the Original Sin Eater as well as the origin and propagator of the Flood itself. The Akadaemia Anyder Notes towards the end of the dungeon talk about how they began development of potent Guardians to stand up against the oncoming calamity. Considering how the calamity function as it was shown to us then Eden's design makes it perfect for combating the Calamity, its ability to slow Aether to the point of stasis allows it to eliminate out of control creation magic in a large zone as well as basically kill off any fear created creatures. Considering also that the last boss of the Dungeon is another Guardian Force from FF8 just like Eden is it lines up.

How it wound up on the First is unknown. However given that the First was heavily aspected towards light already it would be safe to presume that the First was aspected towards light so much mostly because Eden was slumbering on that shard.

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Originally Posted by geekgirl101

Which now makes me wonder, was Diabolos originally a Darkwarden?

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If Darkwardens are/were a thing, he was not one originally but became one when he absorbed Scathach, as she was classed above him in power, Cloud of Darkness would be another one if they are a thing.

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Originally Posted by Atamis

I don't think its a matter of Sin Eaters only existing on the first and then Amdapor copies them. I assume Sin Eaters are a natural phenomenon when anything gets too much light aether as are Voidsent when they lost all their aether. I interpreted it as Ampdapor looked into their magic ball, seen creatures of pure light aether and copied them. At some point afterward the flood happened from mass light aether and the rest is history. My question would be, are the Lightwardens always the same or were they particularly strong vitims caught by the flood (or in Titanias sake, something more powerful that slayed the previous)

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Philia card mentions that it was originally a prisoner that was transformed by the flood of light while the Eros card mentions it was several creatures that were forcibly fused by the flood.

I've yet to get the Storge card so i cannot say what that is but my guess is it was something that was also caught in the flood not something that was transformed later.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

I've yet to get the Storge card so i cannot say what that is but my guess is it was something that was also caught in the flood not something that was transformed later.

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Storge is believed to be a corrupted Sprite or Fairie and that it feeds on memories.