What's disappointed me most about RDM in 5.0

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Would be better if they just followed through the same logic they did leading into Stormblood with skills like Repelling Shot and just moved the damage elsewhere, like onto Corps-a-corps. I've spend all expansion wondering how they could rightly remove the damage from Repelling Shot, for perfectly sound reasons, but they went and slapped damage on Displacement all the same... Now they're doubling down on it and adding a Lv72 skill to "fix" the issue they already fixed with Bard in 4.0... Even if you want to look at it as a gain on restricted arenas, you're still being punished just by virtue of being on that arena... It's baffling that they gave Engagement 150 potency and Displacement 200... "We understand that you have a slight DPS loss from being unable to use Displacement on some arenas, we're going to make that less of an issue but not outright fix the issue when it would be as simple as giving Engagement the same potency as Displacement..."

It's really hard to look at that, then look at something like Machinist that's getting Bioblaster, Auto-crossbow, Drill, and B.O.B, and not be somewhat put off...

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Something Like a damage down [something defensive Id say or an aggro cut so it doesnt *compete* for DPS] on displacement with 200 potency and just leaving Engagement with 200 potency no additional effect would have been an okay compromise. :C

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While you are moving the gauge sort of depletes, but we have added an action that is an instant move so there are more things you can do while on the move. [Source]

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Wondering if it's something in a different build or a mistranslation? I didn't notice the gauge depleting at all when he was running around.

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Originally Posted by Dustytome

Wondering if it's something in a different build or a mistranslation? I didn't notice the gauge depleting at all when he was running around.

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I think it was a complete misunderstanding. Maybe something to the effect of, you can't get in melee range in time to not overfill your gauge which would waste it so instead you can spend or deplete part of it with enhanced reprise which is ranged and costs 10 mana.


https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...20/unknown.png

Unehanced is melee only.

People need to chill with the speculation when we know so little. All this doom and gloom over nothing concrete.

Scatter spam was boring as it can get. If they make AoE more interesting I'm all for it. And as noted, a weaker melee finisher is better than not being able to use displacement at all.

After the media embargo gets lifted on the 29th we'll know a lot more on how this actually all works.

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Originally Posted by Gokuhan

People need to chill with the speculation when we know so little. All this doom and gloom over nothing concrete.

Scatter spam was boring as it can get. If they make AoE more interesting I'm all for it. And as noted, a weaker melee finisher is better than not being able to use displacement at all.

After the media embargo gets lifted on the 29th we'll know a lot more on how this actually all works.

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And when its all exactly the same as predicted well have waited a week for more disappointment. :p

The only thing we can hope for is that Raise will have a CD on it so we arent expected to raise at the cost of a GCD, since the caster role seems to be focusing more on pure damage over any real support.

I'm going to have to be more optimistic personally.

My biggest issues with red mage in 4.x are:
1) Extremely boring AoE rotation
2) No (reasonable) way to control your melee combo timings
3) Manafication often comes up at awkward times
4) Movement heavy sections can screw you if your melee combo and/or swiftcast don't line up. Despite popular belief, a red mage is less mobile than a summoner.

So far from what I've seen, this already has all the problems being fixed. I don't call the extra AoE stuff "button bloat", I call it "I won't be falling asleep trying to build up to my moulinet spam". Reprise offers a mana dump, creating both a way to line up your melee combos with the raid, and a way to dump excess mana to press manafication when it comes off cooldown at 50/50, instead of 70/70. And finally, armed with the knowledge that you have a use or two of Reprise in your budget for lining up your mana, you can use it during movement heavy sections.

scatter and impact become an AoE, leaving us with a "cost" of one level 72+ slot for AoE. Reprise is the utility we've needed. And Scorch is cool as heck.

We haven't seen everything, and I'm excited for it. I want to know the deets on scorch. I want to know what that weird buff on manafication is. I want to know it all, but I'm already happy with what I've seen.

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Originally Posted by Kurando

The funny thing is I saw Arm's Length on Yoshi's Gunbreaker hotbar as well, and that was always a melee DPS action. Unless enemies lose the ability to interrupt player actions or do so at a much lower rate, then rip Surecast. What's the likelyhood they'll just reduce the CD in a later patch after players complain how ineffective it is for Casters, hmm...

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I think Paladins will be losing Tempered Will so that all the tanks can have access to a knockback prevention ability in Arm's Length as a role-action. In fact, I'm pretty sure bard also used Arm's length in the job action trailer, so this is basically giving everyone the 'basically' same ability on the same cooldown.

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Originally Posted by Zyneste

I originally outlined all the changes to the class, but when I went to make the post I flubbed it after typing "character limit" and my wall of text was copied over by "character limit".

Here are the skills from the LL broadcast that had tooltips.

https://i.imgur.com/P9dVin2.png

What disappoints me most is that we undertook allot of pre-70 changes in order to introduce a better AOE system. So we turned 1 AOE skill (scatter) into 3 (VerAero/Verthunder AOE and Impact.) This caused our Single target rotation to become simpler with just spamming Jolt II (Buffed by 10 potency) when our verthunder/veraero fails to yield a proc. We added in a skill that we will only use when displacement would cause issues like falling with 50 less potency [Engagement 150 potency, Displacement 200. They share a cd.]

We are doing this strange button bloat give and take. We are adding obvious button bloat while removing skills that did their purpose just fine. This AOE combo is an clone of the single target combo. It doesn't add value to the AOE aspect anymore than Scatter. Less even since its the exact same.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...26/unknown.png

After the rework we will be pressing 5 less buttons (not including the removal of Drain. The left side included a macro that combined Addle/Manashift so its 33 buttons vs 28)

We will have no crowd control abilities with the removal of Tether for content like Eureka.

We will have less OGCD mitigative support with the removal of Erase/Apoc.

We won't be able to contribute to healer MP recovery like we could with Manashift, leaving that to ONLY Ranged.



RDM's Hard cast, instant cast, weave setup really allowed for us to be able to chime in with abilities like erase/Apoc/manashift to support our party members, but with their removal we really have nothing to do between our sparring OGCD attacks that we will be double weaving as often as possible. A skill like gun breaker's Aurora would have really helped keep us feeling like we're contributing to something without costing us a GCD like vercure. Losing our OGCD support skills leaves RDM feeling really hollow. I know its mostly the role skills being removed that bugs me, role skills that even BLM had access to, but RDM used them much more easily and had an incentive to use them. Players not dying means that RDM doesn't need to raise. I wish they had furthered this concept in SB instead of adding niche skills.


“A jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one.”

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I like the changes, thanks square enix ❤

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Originally Posted by Gokuhan

People need to chill with the speculation when we know so little. All this doom and gloom over nothing concrete.

Scatter spam was boring as it can get. If they make AoE more interesting I'm all for it. And as noted, a weaker melee finisher is better than not being able to use displacement at all.

After the media embargo gets lifted on the 29th we'll know a lot more on how this actually all works.

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This game is was released yesterday, we know what previous expansions were like and literally nothing was changed from teaser build to final build related to Job Actions. No, we don't need to keep out mount shut over something so obvious, it's literally there.
I'm pretty disappointed they decided to bring yet another version of Aero and Thunder when they could bring Water and Blizzard for this AoE aspect. They should have changed the AoE Verthunder and Veraero to be the same thing, being Aoe by default and turning into their powerfull version when dualcast is active. But instead of using Impact they should have created Verwater and Verblizzard as the new AoE 5s cast time. Wasted opportunity... maybe for 6.0...

I feel they should have kept Scatter as a low level AoE skill, then upgrade it with a trait to Impact. Then release Verwater and verblizzard as 5s cast time AoE. It's nearly impossible to imagine they haven't just thought of this.

I really hope there's more than just this. Because RDM is already a pretty boring Job, with 5.0 they didn't showed much to address this.

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Originally Posted by LeoLupinos

This game is was released yesterday, we know what previous expansions were like and literally nothing was changed from teaser build to final build related to Job Actions. No, we don't need to keep out mount shut over something so obvious, it's literally there.
I'm pretty disappointed they decided to bring yet another version of Aero and Thunder when they could bring Water and Blizzard for this AoE aspect.
Also, why they did invert to Aero/Thunder > Impact when Impact was supposed to be weaker than any Aero/thunder spell? Why does single target Aero/Thunder have 5s cast time, and the AoE is normal GCD? it does not make sense since it's not just a weaker single target, it's an AoE.

I feel they should have kept Scatter as a low level AoE skill, then upgrade it with a trait to Impact. Then release Verwater and verblizzard as 5s cast time AoE. It's nearly impossible to imagine they haven't just thought of this.

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Looking at a couple leaks, scatter did get traited into impact. It's Scatter until level 66.

My biggest issue with the expansion upgrade to RDM isn't that we got all these changes, its that SE emphasizes Bloat being an issue, but we have 5 less active hotbar skills than we did in 4.0, a time when we had already pruned down classes. RDM was designed as a low button class. We aren't bloated at the least.

Why SE couldn't be bothered to throw us a bone and at least give caster 6 role skills instead of 4 or just give RDM an additonal skill or two if BLM is still too skill bloated from losing nothing other than the 6 role skills while still gaining skills. [Seriously off the top of my head I can't think of one skill they lost.]