Sin Eaters

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Originally Posted by Cilia

The real question I have is... if Kuribu and the Winged Lion are based on these Sin Eaters, how did the Amdapori learn of them?

Inquiring minds gotta know!

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Well, if they're anything like the Voidsent, then I assume that it wouldn't be unheard of for them to appear out of no-where.

Given that there are 3 ways that Voidsent appear in our world:

1) Someone in our world specifically tears a hole in the aether to open a portal to the Void where a Voidsent can travel through.

2) A Voidsent themselves tears a hole in the aether to open a portal to our world.

3) A natural tear occurs creating a portal between our world and the Void.

I assume, that there might have been a natural tear allowing Sin Eaters to come to our world. After which people found out how to open portals to force them to appear.

Though, I guess the biggest difference is that Voidsent weren't (Necessarily) created by the flood of darkness. They were created by mutations and corruption from Primal infused Auracite (I.e. They imprisoned Primals in Auracite then managed to then use their power. Not too different from what we have seen the Allagans attempt to do or what the Garleans wanted to do back in ARR)

While, it seems they're suggesting that Sin Eaters are created by an "Over-exposure of light" as opposed to being subjected to the power of Auracite and Primals.

It's very curious. Especially in what it can mean for us. I mean how much Light is too much? When we're literally getting Hydaelyn's Blessing of Light and then turning it up to 11+ with our crystal(s) and occasionally Auracite, how close are we getting to "Over-Exposure"?

Unless there's something else afoot in what it means to become a Sin Eater... :confused:

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Originally Posted by Kalise

I assume, that there might have been a natural tear allowing Sin Eaters to come to our world.

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The question is: From where?

The Thirteenth fell to void no less than 6,000 years ago and, as a Dark-born void, still has voidsent lingering within it. Arbert taught us (and the devs confirmed) that a Light-born void leaves "blank perfection" in its wake, not Sin Eaters. Ergo, the only way we know of for Sin Eaters to appear (so far) is that a Flood of Light must be in progress. Neither Arbert nor Elidibus (nor anything else) suggested that a dimension other than the Thirteenth fell to a Flood until the First's situation arose.

So where did the Amdapori Sin Eater images come from, if indeed that is what they are? Has the First been falling for 2,000 straight years? Did another dimension once come back from the brink and some sin eaters escaped? Did another dimension once fall and some sin eaters crossed over during that time? Did Amdapori inherit stories from the Allagans who somehow had knowledge of the sin eaters? Is this tied to the existence of the Crystal Tower? Are time shenanigans involved?

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Originally Posted by Kalise

Though, I guess the biggest difference is that Voidsent weren't (Necessarily) created by the flood of darkness. They were created by mutations and corruption from Primal infused Auracite

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This still needs a bit of tidying up. They say that auracite lead to monters, but they also said that the voidsent are the remnants of people and animals that were alive during the Flood of Darkness. Surely animals weren't wielding auracite. Perhaps the monsters died in the flood. Perhaps the monsters became the unique voidsent at the top of the hierarchy like Diabolos and Scathach.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

So where did the Amdapori Sin Eater images come from, if indeed that is what they are? Has the First been falling for 2,000 straight years? Did another dimension once come back from the brink and some sin eaters escaped? Did another dimension once fall and some sin eaters crossed over during that time? Did Amdapori inherit stories from the Allagans who somehow had knowledge of the sin eaters? Is this tied to the existence of the Crystal Tower? Are time shenanigans involved?

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I think the simplest (and thus least interesting) answer is basically "timey-wimey shenanigans", because if you assume that time on the First passes at the same rate as time on the Source (at least in general), then everything breaks down.

The 3.x Warriors of Darkness supposedly caused their world to tip too far into the Light through their actions, including killing the Ascian of the First, Mitron. For this to actually have an effect, it would imply that Mitron was perma-killed, rather than having his essence yeeted out of his host like we did with Lahabrea and Thancred.

In the 2.5 ending cutscene, we see Elidibus warn Lahabrea that never before has an Ascian (or at least "that which is eternal") been perma-killed, in reference to our destruction of Nabriales. Lahabrea dismisses this in his arrogance. (But then what of Emmerololth?)

Later, in the 3.0 ending cutscene, Elidibus is on apparently the moon, and chats with the Arbert, Warrior of Darkness. So by that time, Arbert had already come to the Source.

So Mitron should have been killed sometime during the base Heavensward story, and the Flood of Light starting then, and Arbert and co. choosing the drastic measure of forcing a Rejoining, all in the span of time that Heavensward took, or at least maybe immediately after 2.5 (and before 2.55) and immediately before the scene on the alleged moon.

Which, as far as I can vaguely recall, is something like a couple of months? Subject to the time bubble of the Source, of course.

I can't see any way around this other than "well, time flows differently", which will in itself cause shenanigans when we have to move back and forth between the First and the Source (due to player convenience reasons).

I'm sure the amdapori communicated with the sineaters the same way the mhachi communicated with voidsent. Perhaps the amdapori simply thought the sineaters were benevolent angels/gods/elementals. By teaching the white mages spells like holy and stuff, they could defeat darkness and tip the world towards light, allowing them free access.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

So where did the Amdapori Sin Eater images come from, if indeed that is what they are? Has the First been falling for 2,000 straight years? Did another dimension once come back from the brink and some sin eaters escaped? Did another dimension once fall and some sin eaters crossed over during that time? Did Amdapori inherit stories from the Allagans who somehow had knowledge of the sin eaters? Is this tied to the existence of the Crystal Tower? Are time shenanigans involved?
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The Crystal person at the Tower was confirmed to be the trailer's narrator in Naoki's Room, the japanese voice actor hasn't worked in the game before. He says "how many years have come and gone". This would indicate he been waiting us for quite a while. The last dev pannel also showed a slide saying the Crystal Tower been there for years and the city was constructed around there. Not only that but appearently the First have legends of those who will bring back the night, legends take years to form so I doubt Arbert have left the First any recently, he told us his own tales of victories against the Dark. It totally sound like time shennanigans are involved. But we won't know the hows and whys for a while now.

As for Amdapor... Whew~ The War of Magi was truly something else. If Sin Eaters are directly linked to the flood of light the way they seem to be, it was basically a very twisted conflict of Light and Dark as Amdapor went into worshipping Sin Eaters carving golems in their image, as Mhach summoned Voidsents to inhabit their own bodies. But also does raise some questions! I'm very excited and hyped to see where this will all bring us hope the map splits of the First's not Eorzea and the new Ilsbard maps don't feel as disconnected as Stormblood stories.

But, if the Voidsent are the Thirteenth's residents becoming twisted... What are the Sin Eaters, where do they come from?! Doubt we will know that any soon.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

The question is: From where?

The Thirteenth fell to void no less than 6,000 years ago and, as a Dark-born void, still has voidsent lingering within it. Arbert taught us (and the devs confirmed) that a Light-born void leaves "blank perfection" in its wake, not Sin Eaters. Ergo, the only way we know of for Sin Eaters to appear (so far) is that a Flood of Light must be in progress. Neither Arbert nor Elidibus (nor anything else) suggested that a dimension other than the Thirteenth fell to a Flood until the First's situation arose.

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I think this goes back to my question surrounding to what extent is "Over-Exposure to Light"?

Like, a flood of light being in progress is enough to cause sufficient exposure and does so on a large scale. But is there potential for more condensed exposure to happen for more isolated cases?

For example, if someone is trying to find a new potent healing spell - Such as one potent enough to raise the dead - Could they not incidentally expose themselves to high amounts of light and thus transform into a Sin Eater? Allowing their existence without there necessarily being a calamity-esk event.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

This still needs a bit of tidying up. They say that auracite lead to monters, but they also said that the voidsent are the remnants of people and animals that were alive during the Flood of Darkness. Surely animals weren't wielding auracite. Perhaps the monsters died in the flood. Perhaps the monsters became the unique voidsent at the top of the hierarchy like Diabolos and Scathach.

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Well, we know from Haukke Manor that Voidsent have the capacity to corrupt others (In hard mode the first few enemies include: The first enemy is a Wood Wailer whom is corrupted into Voidsent. The next 3 trash packs include Succubi that if not dealt with quickly enough, will convert a nearby Wood Wailer into a Voidsent)

So it's possible that the people whom were corrupted by the Auracite then in their more mindless Voidsent state would go around corrupting other people and animals (Since you have to assume that not all people where using Auracite just like animals wouldn't be). Sort of like the trope of Zombies going around infecting people to create more Zombies.

Though, it does raise some questions about how they go about corrupting someone. Like, do they just have an abundance of that corrupted Auracite? Can all Voidsent corrupt (We only see specifically Succubi doing it)? Are they merely channelling condensed Darkness into the host to corrupt them?

This also makes me curious about what would happen if a Voidsent tried to corrupt a Sin Eater? Can Sin Eaters corrupt people? Is there a way to cleanse Voidsent/Sin Eaters and bring them back to their original states?

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Originally Posted by Kalise

Though, it does raise some questions about how they go about corrupting someone. Like, do they just have an abundance of that corrupted Auracite? Can all Voidsent corrupt (We only see specifically Succubi doing it)? Are they merely channelling condensed Darkness into the host to corrupt them?

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The lorebook section on the history of Allag has the key to this, I think.

From page 27, "Victory in Meracydia", it talks about their pact with the voidsent, and that it specficially involved summoned voidsent fighting in the Allagan army. Any enemy they killed could then be immediately used to summon another voidsent into the body, thus expanding the army. Effectively the zombie analogy you were talking about.

So I think that's what's happening in Haukke Manor as well. The Wood Wailers aren't just being corrupted, they're being killed and immediately taken over by whatever voidsent they "transform" into.

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Originally Posted by YianKutku

I think the simplest (and thus least interesting) answer is basically "timey-wimey shenanigans"

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Technically, the simplest answer to solving a lot of problems is timey-wimey shenanigans. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/i...s/rolleyes.png
This is why they had to take away all the Wizarding World's time turners, lol.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

I'm sure the amdapori communicated with the sineaters the same way the mhachi communicated with voidsent.

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Sin Eaters from where?

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Originally Posted by zuzu-bq

the japanese voice actor hasn't worked in the game before

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Is that confirmation that he's a new character, or a misdirection because G'raha had no spoken lines before?

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Originally Posted by zuzu-bq

Not only that but appearently the First have legends of those who will bring back the night, legends take years to form so I doubt Arbert have left the First any recently, he told us his own tales of victories against the Dark.

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What if Arbert threw in with Elidibus so confidently because he thought HE was fulfilling the prophecy of the Bringer of Night?
(Man, that's so sad...)

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Originally Posted by Iscah

So I think that's what's happening in Haukke Manor as well. The Wood Wailers aren't just being corrupted, they're being killed and immediately taken over by whatever voidsent they "transform" into.

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Agreed. Voidsent manifest through dead stuff a lot of the time; no rules against preparing your own dead stuff.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Is that confirmation that he's a new character, or a misdirection because G'raha had no spoken lines before?

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My current guess is the latter, because they rather dramatically drew attention to how they couldn't say the character's name. A new character could have been named and it would be, "please look forward to it," followed by a bunch of people digging on the Final Fantasy wiki for possible past incarntations, but giving the name of an existing FFXIV character whose involvement is not yet confirmed is another matter entirely. Even if they called him any of "Desch," "Noah," "Alus," etc. all of those would point to possible aliases for G'raha along the lines of "Matoya" for Y'shtola.

Given how the game handled Gaius's return, the simplest explanation based on the current evidence is probably correct.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

My current guess is the latter, because they rather dramatically drew attention to how they couldn't say the character's name.

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I had already moved from Team "It might be G'raha incidentally (while most of the evidence used to support the claim ends up incidentally false) " to Team "The G'raha theory has legs to stand on now." and then Ishikawa-san plugged the Crystal Tower story arc as a way to understand more about Shadowbringers. The Crystal Tower story arc didn't have too many extra tendrils and I think the chances of Allagan bloodlines and Dalamud applying to Shadowbringers are slim, and Nero's beepy boi doesn't have explaning power, so that pretty much just leaves everyone's favorite and/or most punchable mancatte.

Though characters at the intersection of "Created by Ishikawa" and "beloved by fans" have a survival rate in roughly the Sean Bean zone, so that doesn't bode well.