Skillchains and bazaars

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Konsentrate

XIV has gone through a ton of transformations. It will certainly go through more. If making these suggestions piss you off or something, why even reply with anything? I didn't ask if you thought it would work, I asked if anyone knew of developers discussing them.

---

You missunderstood what I said: Suggestions dont "piss me off", they irritate or annoy me when they arent thought through with the basic system and philosophy of this game in mind.
Part of Yoshis philosophy for this game is that every job-combination can clear any content (as long as you meet the criteria of 1/2 tanks, 1/2 healers and 2/4 DPS), so I wouldnt even expect them to discuss a system that seems to require something that goes against this core design philosophy (aka: requiring certain job-combinations).
Its like asking "Do they consider bringing back the Active Time Battle?"

I'm open for changes and transformations to this game, as long as they dont compromisse the core of it - the battle system and the way it works aswell as their idea of "you can play this with whatever job-combos" you like belong to this core to me.

If you post something in general discussion you should be prepared to discuss it.

But to answer your question: No, to my knowledge the devs havent discussed either of those system (at least not openly, no idea what goes on behind closed doors, obviously).
I simply added my thoughts on why I wouldnt expect them to discuss them in the first place.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Konsentrate

I don't recall bazaars being available in 1.0 but perhaps it's just been so long I can't remember.

---

I regretfully wasn't around during 1.0. That is just going from the information I've obtained while learning about those days. I don't know for sure if it was called a bazaar, but I know it worked very similarly to that system from XI.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gemina

Skill chains were a convoluted system in FFXI that were eventually abandoned completely by the time I left that game. TP instead of being a readily available resource as it is in FFXIV, was a resource you built up by causing and taking damage in XI iirc. You had to be able to build this up to a minimum of 100% in order to unleash a weaponskill. These weaponskills had modifiers through equipment mods and building the TP gauge past 100% that affected the overall damage caused from them. Skill chains, as the name implies, involved at least two players using their weaponskills in tandem in order to create an effect causing even more damage to the mob. This effect had an elemental property attached to it, which would further modify the damage to the mob depending on if it was weak, neutral, or strong against said element. This also opened the window for mages to contribute to the damage via Magic Bursts.

So you have to know the mob's elemental weakness, look at a skill chain chart, and determine the best possible according to the weapons - NOT jobs - in your party. So as an example, a scythe wielding DRK might have to switch to a greatsword for the optimal skill chain, but then this DRK might tell you that his/her skill level with that weapon is too low to have reliable accuracy. A lot of the time, one player would be holding on to their weaponskill waiting for their chaining partner to build up their TP due to the accuracy issues in that game.

Starting to get a gist why it was abandoned? xD
It is a really good thing that SE abandoned this system entirely, and also getting rid of TP come ShB. These type of resources are antiquated and behind the times.

---

...I'll apologise if I'm hurting anyones nostalgic feelings here, but that sounds horrible... intresting, to a degree, but horrible.

And totally like something that wouldnt work with FFXIVs combat system. Seeing how they removed the whole elemental aspect from the game (only to add in some "alibi"-version in Eureka, their FFXI-homage content) and streamlining the experience in general, I just dont see them add (or even consider adding, aka discussing) any systems that would require that level of coordination and dependance on what jobs/weapons are present in a group.

Bazaars were in 1.x, they were removed in 2.0 because market board/retainers. Retainers and the mannequin system are basically bazaars and you can place them outside your house if you have one. The market board is just an evolution of the ward system and the search option they added later in 1.2x's life and combined to be more modern and convenient.

Skill chains were in 1.0 (they were called battle regimens), but it was removed and replaced with the limit break system in 2.0. They aren't the same thing, but it's what ended up happening.

I did think it through and still don't see, at all, why it would be a problem to add combos in the current system that could either add additional damage or small buffs. It wouldn't change the ability for every job-combination to clear any content. Would easily be able to make it available to the base job roles then any combo would be able to do it. Bullocks to the idea that it somehow would be compromising the core part of the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vaer

Bazaars were in 1.x, they were removed in 2.0 because market board/retainers. Retainers and the mannequin system are basically bazaars and you can place them outside your house if you have one. The market board is just an evolution of the ward system and the search option they added later in 1.2x's life and combined to be more modern and convenient.

Skill chains were in 1.0 (they were called battle regimens), but it was removed and replaced with the limit break system in 2.0. They aren't the same thing, but it's what ended up happening.

---

Well bazaars are on your character, that's the major difference. Yes, battle regimens was what I was talking about and they were poorly implemented, I agree.

Skillchains in XI after awhile also just stopped happening unless you were breaking a mythic weapon so you could unlock the weaponskill to use. I'm not sure if there has been a resurgence in XI, but even if it has it wouldn't work with XIV mostly because you'd use one that a monster was weak to with a spell to create a magic burst. Outside of Eureka the devs have moved away from the elemental weakness aspect of the game to the point of removing the buffs from various cnj wands and the like. Bazaars like in 1.0 would just be a clogged laggy area where your retainers would be like a patch day rahuban extreme fest unless you do go and do it with how it is in XI where you can get into cases of harassment. In that trades and can stop a person from teleporting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Konsentrate

Well bazaars are on your character, that's the major difference. Yes, battle regimens was what I was talking about and they were poorly implemented, I agree.

---

Honestly I see them as the same concept, in XI people just parked outside in rolanberry with their bazaar usually on a mule, no different than a market board really. It was cool to check people out in the world to see what they had, but since a large portion of XIV is instanced and they don't allow trading in most instances it would be pretty pointless when the market board already applies the same concept and is a lot more convenient with a price history you can check in-game instead of on a third party site.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Konsentrate

So gonna just reply quickly to explain, yes sorry.

For skillchains it was simply combos that could be done with multiple players. So a WAR could land the end of their Storm's Path combo and a MNK could land the end of their Snap Punch combo and if done at the right time a skillchain could be trigger which maybe increases dmg a small bit. A mage would be able to hit an elemental spell that could hit for extra damage if done at the right time. Made the battle a little more strategic among players.

They actually had this in XIV at first, in a way but scrapped it--can't recall what it was called. I would love to see them enhance it, even a little. It doesn't seem like "I should just go play XI" when I can easily come into "General Discussion" and start a discussion.

Bazaars would simple be a way to see a small list of items on the person when you check them. Even if it was a few it would a be nice addition (even if they only showed up in towns).

---

I mean this just sounds like a weird buff window thatll end up with even more convoluted party dynamics. Currently, I as a player can just pop a buff (Lets say brotherhood going with your example of War/Monk) that everyone can take advantage of without pre-requisite. But a skill chain as described would require not only for me to be watching what a war is doing, but also lining up my GCD with his to ensure my snap punch. Doing this on top of watching boss mechanics, and then having this facet balanced against everyones buffs which they can pop freely or their own skill chain windows on top of things.

Im not saying "Nah combat is perfect as is!" and I wouldnt mind seeing some variety in how things are done, but I think that a skill chain-esque system would be a nightmare for the devs to balance and and a pain in the butt for players at all levels of play. Imagine doing a highly mechanic intensive fight that requires you to skill chain like that to meet DPS checks? Unless you overhaul how the combat system in FFXIV works, I dont think the skill chain system would fit without making things a mess.

As for Bazaars, it sounds like a shop system like how RO (yes I know its old school]) had where a merchant can park their butts in places and set up a shop.

The trouble is I would think a Bazaar system would work...if the open world had a necessity for it. Since RO is a grind MMO, having a merchant set up in a field or location where people are just mob grinding makes sense. Its a pit stop you can go to if you needed to resupply. However, the unfortunate thing with FFXIV is that open world combat is a lot less important. When an xpac launches, yeah zones are packed, but by mid expansion, people are sporadic at best. If the game had more open world combat, I could see the system being useful. But since MBs are merely a recall away (and none to expensive honestly to teleport to) there isnt much use really to it.

I suppose though if you wanted it in the game, what could be done is through retainers. Meaning, yorue given a special item (A retainer voucher or something along those lines) where you can go to a place on the world map, use it, and itll drop your retainer in that spot for a duration of time. Itll set up a shop just like if you had a retainer at your plot. Some stipulations might be necessary, such as you cant place two on top of each other, and you cant send that retainer on a mission or anything if its deployed. Maybe said retainer would have to be limited to being placed in settlements. Or if you could place it on world map, it could be attacked by roaming monsters so your retainer level and gear matters. You could possibly provide said retainer with extra functions (such as repair gear) on top of being a mobile selling point/MB.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SannaR

Skillchains in XI after awhile also just stopped happening unless you were breaking a mythic weapon so you could unlock the weaponskill to use. I'm not sure if there has been a resurgence in XI, but even if it has it wouldn't work with XIV mostly because you'd use one that a monster was weak to with a spell to create a magic burst. Outside of Eureka the devs have moved away from the elemental weakness aspect of the game to the point of removing the buffs from various cnj wands and the like. Bazaars like in 1.0 would just be a clogged laggy area where your retainers would be like a patch day rahuban extreme fest unless you do go and do it with how it is in XI where you can get into cases of harassment. In that trades and can stop a person from teleporting.

---

Yeah, I figured the server load for people coming in and out were why they were not implemented, but I wasn't sure. The elemental part of the skillchains wouldn't fit, I just figured more like the battle regimens were.