[Discussion] A lore forum Discord chat channel!

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Did people miss the part where I suggested a moderator team? I already outlined that it wouldn't be a good idea for any one person to be the sole leader. For what it's worth, I already have experience moderating and my job in the real world requires me to be objective given that I review restaurants for a living these days.

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No, I didn't "miss" that part.

It just feels like going about it in the wrong way.

"I'm good at being objective because I say I am" isn't an argument you can just make for yourself.

And I agree with ObsidianFire - I wouldn't feel comfortable having certain discussions in what is currently "your" lore Discord channel.

This is all making me feel anxious. Both the overall situation and speaking up like this about it.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

This is all making me feel anxious.

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There's very little to be anxious about. At no point have I presented this as 'my' channel. It's a community effort. Nothing is being hidden. Everybody is welcome - and encouraged - to step up and get involved.

Someone has to get the ball rolling. Ideally multiple people.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

While you've put a lot of thought into this and it all sounds reasonable, I have to be mean and blunt here.

You seem to be putting yourself forward as moderator, and I don't feel like it's a good idea.

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You're free to create one with a moderator panel better suited to your tastes, then. It's a Discord chat. Not a mortgage agreement.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

This is all making me feel anxious. Both the overall situation and speaking up like this about it.

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Er, right.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

You're free to create one with a moderator panel better suited to your tastes, then.

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This.

Though the ideal scenario is that the moderation team will be varied and not just an echo chamber/safe space. I want to establish a place where people can discuss the game's lore and not feel as though they have to tread on eggshells or find themselves insulted for liking a different character/faction to someone else.

The world isn't going to end if X likes Lyse and Y doesn't.

The world isn't going to end if A likes Garlemald and B doesn't.

It's a fictional setting. It's a game. It's meant to be fun. Some of us are more invested in the overall package than others, certainly, though I see no need or valid reasoning for there to be any bad blood.

Actually, you know, since nobody else has brought it up yet, I guess I'll elaborate on what I said before:


I would very much like an "After Hours" Lore Forum Discord, primarily for handling smaller real-time conversations and cross-world event planning and such that the forum format isn't really conducive to. (PM SYSTEM WHERE?). I would not like a Discord that serves as yet another place for long-format discussions of Garlean Morality, Ethics, and Treatment (but I suppose that can be its own sub-channel), because that sounds like it would be just one match short of a trashcan fire. We also don't need the inevitable resulting political schism in which we end up with two Discords, both alike in dignity, in fair Eorzea where we lay our scene...

I happen to think that the forum format is one of the best ways we have to keep from shooting ourselves in our respective feet with what we say.

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Originally Posted by The Process™

"Does this post make me sound like an @hole?"
-> Yes! (close tab and start over)
-> No! (add another paragraph and see if that's still true)

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There will always be people who refuse to use The Process™, but I'm not sure real-time constraints on conversations will be the way to improve that.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

You're free to create one with a moderator panel better suited to your tastes, then.

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It's not that simple. Some of us are already on the fence as to whether we would want a Lore Discord in the first place as we like the structure inherent in a forum (that isn't modded by the community).

Then someone, who has a reputation on the lore forum for having an obvious bias (deserved or not), wants to start a Lore Discord. The idea of having to deal with that person on a regular basis isn't appealing to a lot of people. It might even be enough of a turn-off that the people who were on the fence about a Lore Discord aren't on the fence anymore and outright decide they aren't going to get involved with the whole thing.

You can't just tell someone to start up a project they would never have started in the first place just because someone they don't want to interact with has started up a project they might have wanted to interact with if that person wasn't there.

Both platforms have perks and drawbacks. Both could easily be embraced without compromising the other.

I'll confess, I see no reason why Garlemald needs to be a controversial discussion point in the first place. It isn't real. If people want to get up in arms and convince themselves that defending a fictional character/organisation is the same as defending certain dubious real world organisations, then that's on them - and it really should be laughed off more frequently than it is.

Nobody is obligated to join this project if they don't want to. Though I daresay it might be worth taking a 'wait and see' approach to see how things turn out before passing judgement.

Most of what some posters here assume about certain other posters is entirely incorrect, anyway. Again, any disagreements over Garlemald are the equivalent of liking or disliking pineapple as a potential topping on a pizza. It's not a big deal. It shouldn't be a big deal. If there's bad blood as a result of that, then I'd strongly suggest taking a step back and seriously reconsidering priorities in life.

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Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

You can't just tell someone to start up a project they would never have started in the first place just because someone they don't want to interact with has started up a project they might have wanted to interact with if that person wasn't there.

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Why, of course I can - and I just did.

Overall, I find this all very petty. In the end, this is supplementary to the forum. If it is not to your liking, you don't need to join. If you do decide to partake, and find it is not to your liking, you have the option of leaving and creating a venue better suited to your tastes. Discord chats are pretty low commitment to set up or join. There is minimal cost to trialing it and no obligation to do so.

The tone of it is "thanks for doing all the work of setting up the chat, but I don't like you, so I don't want you having any moderation influence over it". Strikes me as a pretty entitled mentality.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

You're free to create one with a moderator panel better suited to your tastes, then.

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That exactly creates the fragmentation people have mentioned they wanted to avoid.


On the idea in general, I'm on the fence. I like this sub-forum, and I think we would end up losing the little threads that often contain the most interesting nuggets. On the other hand, an increase in voices (from people who don't have anything to do with the Official Forum) is no bad thing.

At any rate, I've removed the temporary invite for the time being. Clearly this needs more discussion to smooth things out in advance - as well as someone else clearly stepping up alongside me to share in leadership to help alleviate concerns. That is, however, assuming that those expressing their concerns are willing to actually be objective in the first place and operate in good faith.

I hold the firm belief that any controversy on this board is entirely in the hands of those claiming there is controversy in the first place. It really doesn't take much effort to take a step back and agree to disagree when it comes to subjective elements of the game's lore, especially in regards to morality. I'm not particularly interested in tone policing beyond the expectation of civil debate. I'm not particularly interested in moral policing, either - because someone liking Cersei Lannister, Sephiroth or Gaius isn't equal to support of the real world equivalents of whatever shady acts those characters have engaged in. Which should really go without saying, but...

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Originally Posted by Mieck

That exactly creates the fragmentation people have mentioned they wanted to avoid.

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There's always going to be a degree of fragmentation. It's unavoidable. Some people simply won't join a Discord channel simply because they refuse to use Discord in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Mieck

On the idea in general, I'm on the fence. I like this sub-forum, and I think we would end up losing the little threads that often contain the most interesting nuggets. On the other hand, an increase in voices (from people who don't have anything to do with the Official Forum) is no bad thing.

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We're fairly isolated here, unfortunately. There's a lot of people passionate about the game's lore...but of those, only a tiny portion come to the official forum and of that group a smaller number venture here. I think there's a couple of role-players other than myself who come here, for example, but we're not flooded with them despite many being engaged in the game's story and at least two servers being full of them.