Combat Revamp - Healing/Tanking Paradigm, Encounter Design, + bonus PLD rework (LONG)

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Originally Posted by KaldeaSahaline

I want to avoid the meta discussions on "balance" and "dev workload" and focus strictly on the ideas I've proposed therein.

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Except when you come up with an idea like this, you kinda have to take this stuff in mind.

Interesting read, but a bit hard to take you seriously talking about combat jobs when you clearly haven't played them all.

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

no.

when you made this did you even consider you will not have all abilities ? (i/e leveling up, not being 70, etc?)
what if you are in content where you are only able to use the first cure and he first medica?

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You will be fine. Obviously if the content is designed for x level, it will be fairly balanced based on every jobs kit and abilities they have at that current time. Did you think like Sastasha was going to be Neo Exdeath?

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cast? or casting? Way I read this or being suggested is this:

casting cure > cast cure > 2s goes by (animation I am guessing) > cure resolves> you cast cure.

This is suggesting to have a worse system then now and more dragged down by animation lock while not being able to cast skate? You need to cast skate to dodge moves. The healing in this game is overall slow because of the slow response servers have and this seems to make it worse.

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Because I didn't build a full healing kit it probably isn't as clear as it should be. The idea is that you would press cure, it's a 2s cast. At the end of it, the heal resolves healing the player. No lag, no animation delay, etc. Responsive healing is the goal.

I personally believe slide casting is stupid so its natural that I'd remove it in my design . It's an unintended side effect of bad netcode. I also was very clear in my post that you I assumed the netcode would be remedied thus removing this effect anyway.

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Originally Posted by Lord_Zlatan

Right, which makes considering he is talking about a game going through a complete overhaul, which has already gone through a complete overhaul.

It is a completely ridiculous notion to expect the director of FFXIV to say "wow, interesting forum post, lets revamp the entire game! Come on, everyone!"

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I did use the fictitious in bold underline and italic in like the first sentence. Not sure why people are getting so upset over this lol. It's merely for fun to help slow work days go by.

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Originally Posted by Lord_Zlatan

Also, as to the OP: Dont want to quote the OP as it is very long but the one thing I would completely and utterly love to see is more negative status effects that we can add to enemies apart from DoTs and resistance down effects.

Paralyze, Slow, Blind, etc etc that actually EFFECT enemies in a meaningful way would mean that some things would need to be rebalanced to require the negative status effects to be vital to the encounter but i think it could be done

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If you look closely at the PLD toolkit you'll see that I accounted for that and I agree with you. I gave PLD a way to cleanse some debuffs (as I believe thematically that fits, and would be a nice niche tool).

Any other insights?

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Originally Posted by Legion88

Just some questions.
Why is it in your PLD example that you give alle 5 levels a bunch of skills?
The only reason i could see behind this is the locking of skills completely behind the class/job quests
Also your WHM example seems "strange". I don't have a lvl table so i can't see when WHM would learn Cure II, but wouldn't it be more logicaly if the spell without numbering would be the basic from which the other evolve?

I'm waiting for the full version with the complete redesign of the jobs and a way deeper explenation of the system in your mind.

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In the wall of text somewhere I covered that I wanted to re-purpose the leveling curve. IN that I wanted to make low level more engaging and fun. I simply chose 5 level intervals for fun. No real intent behind it. That is why I front loaded more skills at low level, and shifted getting multiple skills together.

I agree, the WHM example was an oversight (you can imagine there are probably several given the length and depth of the topics). If I took the time to build out an actual WHM it'd make a little more sense. I could easily shift the 'type' of healing efficieny to other skills and it'd fit. I'll probably fix it later.

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

I haven't finished reading this and my phone is about to die but I didn't want to wait to tell you omg I love it and I love your brain.

Seriously amazing stuff. I will have a more indepth review later today but for now just wanted to say it was looking great.

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Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

Except when you come up with an idea like this, you kinda have to take this stuff in mind.

Interesting read, but a bit hard to take you seriously talking about combat jobs when you clearly haven't played them all.

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In the very first line, in bold, underline, and italic CAPS I said this was fictitious. This is merely a post for fun as something that I wanted to do to make slow work days go by a bit quicker.

So, to be clear, instead of actually discussing any of the content therein, you've chosen to go after my character in an effort to... What exactly? Undermine my fun post? Make my ideas seem less valid/viable? I didn't post a job design of some job I haven't leveled lol. I specifically chose Paladin because that is the job I have the most experience on.

I strongly welcome you to discuss the actual ideas and content of the OP, rather than this stuff. I'm much more interested in that :)

You would need to remake entire netcode on the SE servers if you want to implement faster cooldowns.
You need also to consider the 0.5 global cooldown on all abilities, there is a time gap between you could press buttons for the reason of the SE server managing and even struggling to keep up with 500 ms latency between players and servers.

With the current ogcd and gcd between them you have a chance to active cooldown ability, with 1.5 sec between the ogcd - skills speed, it will be problematic from the technical point of view to let players use a GCD > OGCD > GCD

And yes i believe we need much more CC in this game, especially the AOE CC on tanks that would help them managing the pulls.

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Originally Posted by Lord_Zlatan

It is a completely ridiculous notion to expect the director of FFXIV to say "wow, interesting forum post, lets revamp the entire game! Come on, everyone!"

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Which is probably why it says that it's "FICTITIOUS" (i.e. a hypothetical, food-for-thought, see what you do and don't like about this unrealizable situation to hone your own tastes) situation in the first two lines?

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

This is suggesting to have a worse system then now and more dragged down by animation lock while not being able to cast skate? You need to cast skate to dodge moves. The healing in this game is overall slow because of the slow response servers have and this seems to make it worse.

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Technically, that much would be irrelevant. The only part of import is how many ms prior to the animation lock's end is the skill queue-able, exactly the same as now. Ping controls how fast you can move between oGCDs, not just GCD, precisely because there is little server-queued time as is. GCDs themselves don't make it any easier to queue skills. The lack of very short animations do, and that's it. If you can skate between 2.5 (1 GCD)-second casts, you can skate between casts in a GCD-less system. The polling rate of this game will still be too poor and the webcode too lenient to stop you.

I want to write up a full review, but have no idea where to start!

Murasaki, how's yours coming along?

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

You would need to remake entire netcode on the SE servers if you want to implement faster cooldowns.
You need also to consider the 0.5 global cooldown on all abilities, there is a time gap between you could press buttons for the reason of the SE server managing and even struggling to keep up with 500 ms latency between players and servers.

With the current ogcd and gcd between them you have a chance to active cooldown ability, with 1.5 sec between the ogcd - skills speed, it will be problematic from the technical point of view to let players use a GCD > OGCD > GCD

And yes i believe we need much more CC in this game, especially the AOE CC on tanks that would help them managing the pulls.

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I believe I did cover the netcode would be updated prior to re-design of this nature.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Which is probably why it says that it's "FICTITIOUS" (i.e. a hypothetical, food-for-thought, see what you do and don't like about this unrealizable situation to hone your own tastes) situation in the first two lines?

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my post was a response to the poster who said "This is the FFXIV forums, where everything gets shot down or ignored". Why would we ignore something that says its fictitious? Your snarkiness is unnecessary. I even go on to say that I agree with his ideas.

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Originally Posted by KaldeaSahaline

You will be fine. Obviously if the content is designed for x level, it will be fairly balanced based on every jobs kit and abilities they have at that current time. Did you think like Sastasha was going to be Neo Exdeath?

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you did not answer my question. Way you worded things is you make healing way too difficult in low levels leading healers to constant oom.

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Originally Posted by KaldeaSahaline

Because I didn't build a full healing kit it probably isn't as clear as it should be. The idea is that you would press cure, it's a 2s cast. At the end of it, the heal resolves healing the player. No lag, no animation delay, etc. Responsive healing is the goal.

I personally believe slide casting is stupid so its natural that I'd remove it in my design . It's an unintended side effect of bad netcode. I also was very clear in my post that you I assumed the netcode would be remedied thus removing this effect anyway.

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correct, thank you, i do not get why ffxi is more responsive then this game is. I agree that at least needs addressing but gl in your endeavors.

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

you did not answer my question. Way you worded things is you make healing way too difficult in low levels leading healers to constant oom.

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Mind showing me where you got that idea from? What text specifically. That isn't my intent so if it's being gleaned from somewhere I will fix it.

The idea is that if the content only allows Cure and Medica, the healing requirements will be more than capable of supporting that without being "too difficult" or leading healers to be constantly OOM. It wouldn't be like expecting someone to heal a level 70 Exdeath with a level 15 Sastasha toolkit.

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Originally Posted by KaldeaSahaline

[*]Cure: which is a moderate cast, moderate power, and moderate cost heal. This is your balanced heal most likely used on frequent damage receiving targets like tanks.

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originally you said expensive i believe, but i was talking about this. I still think you are trying to propose these changes with no regards as you level up (i?e not having the full set of spells