Command Mission Healer Bug or bad design?

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Originally Posted by Rhindas

And I'd like to say we really shouldn't have to order people to not stand in death but then you do Dun Scaith and you realize that you just have to accept some people are special.

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In the case of AI, it's really too much to ask for the AI "party members" to be scripted for the dungeon. Like I could maybe see the AI players being programmed on a per-dungeon case so they know not to step in bad, actually yell out hints when the player is making a mistake, etc. But at the same time it feels like playing with PUG's or players that leveled in POTD that have never step foot in the dungeon before.

For the most part I'm not sure where Square-Enix is going with this. If the intent was to have a party in the similar vein as the FFXI Adventuring Fellow, people won't bother forming parties for anything the AI player can do. And to be fair, Halitali and Stone Vigil are some of the most over-queued dungeons when you do leveling queue under level 50. So if this gives players (particularly DPS) another option, that's perfectly fine. But I somehow doubt we will see any real improvements to the AI without there being AI-player specific content. I just hope we never see them on the overworld.

So its not just my healer doing that stuff..(or doing nothing). I was lucky that she only died towards the end of the last boss fight in stone vigil. I was barely hurt and she healed me (while she was standing in her spot directly next to the tank too..) and never healed herself and then she died. I will truly just do these dungeons as a healer myself..the AI is just too bad.

Also the tank need some rework too. The last boss in stone vigil really shows this. First he attacks it right and the boss is turned away from us, but as soon as the boss flew once, the tank will tank him towards the group, always cleaving us hard. I can go behind the boss but somehow my DD dont care about this and just stand there with the tank. Calling them back does nothing because they all come back and they all just attack him the same way again.

We truly need better AI and more buttons where we can at least let the tank tank alone or where we can give people ways to position themselves better.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

For the most part I'm not sure where Square-Enix is going with this.

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Thats honestly something that I question too. I cant see them being able to clear the harder dungeons if they dont change their AI. So if they are only available for certain dungeons you cant even truly use them to farm stuff. Also if you have a job at 70 you can easily just solo these dungeons if you want to run them for certain things. Its faster and less annoying. So the only good thing right now is the exp, which is only more than the palace if you use quite the bit of exp boost and manage to run them under 10 minutes. (Which you seemingly can if you just spam engage all the time without doing anything yourself..which does not feel like that is intended) So if the exp was the only reason, then why was it necessary to put resources into a new system that is also not really that good thanks to their AI, if you could just simply give us exp while doing the dungeon unsynch?

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Originally Posted by Alleo

We truly need better AI and more buttons where we can at least let the tank tank alone or where we can give people ways to position themselves better.

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Ran into this today....DPS AI should by default be set to go behind the mob, as with healers (who should also learn to heal themselves)....

Also watching the WHM Aero for aggro and the tank running to Ul'dah and back before he engages...it feels very much like SE said 'buff Archer damage to max and who cares about any other AI?'

Thats honestly something that I question too. I cant see them being able to clear the harder dungeons if they dont change their AI. So if they are only available for certain dungeons you cant even truly use them to farm stuff. Also if you have a job at 70 you can easily just solo these dungeons if you want to run them for certain things. Its faster and less annoying. So the only good thing right now is the exp, which is only more than the palace if you use quite the bit of exp boost and manage to run them under 10 minutes. (Which you seemingly can if you just spam engage all the time without doing anything yourself..which does not feel like that is intended) So if the exp was the only reason, then why was it necessary to put resources into a new system that is also not really that good thanks to their AI, if you could just simply give us exp while doing the dungeon unsynch?[/QUOTE]

Just to see how much less squishy the AI is, I ran Stone Vigil as Scholar and let the fairy heal everything. I only invoked the party heal once, and that was right at the beginning of Isgebind because they all managed to get whacked by the first attack and the fairy needed time to recover. Under WHM or AST, you can probably get away with it too if you don't rush directly into danger (because let's be honest, the healer is always squishy.)

Also the difference between Normal, Defense, Offence and Balanced appears to be very little. The only thing that seems to have changed is the distance at which the rangers stand if you give them defensive, but otherwise I think it's just a stat boost and nothing more. In theory maybe "defensive" might make them try to avoid stepping in bad, but I'm thinking it's just a side-effect of having two rangers and lalafells are just smaller so it looks like they're closer.

Yeah I think you are right on that one. The strategy only affects their stats and nothing else. I really haven't noticed any difference behavior-wise.

when can i change my squadron healer to eos? uhm... i mean scholar?

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

Use the Engage command. They'll have trouble even recognizing anything else exists. But obviously you need to do it every time the engaged target dies, or they fall back on their "No target, kill everything" strategy.

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Well...duh...I assure you, I can read. And I did say that I had to use Engage in Wanderers Palace, so I clearly know about its existence.

The problem is that the AI doesn't need to be super smart, but it shouldn't be super dumb either. If I tank and I attack the closest mob, why on earth would the archer attack the mob further away?! The system for deciding the closer enemy (TAB targeting) is wholly messed up (TAB almost always picks something far away before it targets something close to me, no matter which mode), and these AI may use the same worthless code to decide what to attack. I should not need to use Engage for that. I should use Engage only if I want them to attack a different mob, like a random spawn that pops up. Except if the boss becomes invincible (Halatali second and third boss), then they should change targets on their own as well, without me having to use Engage.

The AI needs to be changed to be halfway decent on their own, and the command system should be there to make that halfway decent party into elite of the elite. Right now, it's neither. I don't need to be taught how to circumvent the flaws in the system as I know how to do that. I just pointed out what those flaws are.

Yea it drives me nuts seeing my healer cast Cure II on someone with 85% hp... but when they are at 10% hp they think Stone II is the way to go.

Mostly just hate how DPS AI auto-attacks the first mob they come across even if they're in Disengage mode the entire time :<

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

Just to see how much less squishy the AI is, I ran Stone Vigil as Scholar and let the fairy heal everything. I only invoked the party heal once, and that was right at the beginning of Isgebind because they all managed to get whacked by the first attack and the fairy needed time to recover. Under WHM or AST, you can probably get away with it too if you don't rush directly into danger (because let's be honest, the healer is always squishy.)

Also the difference between Normal, Defense, Offence and Balanced appears to be very little. The only thing that seems to have changed is the distance at which the rangers stand if you give them defensive, but otherwise I think it's just a stat boost and nothing more. In theory maybe "defensive" might make them try to avoid stepping in bad, but I'm thinking it's just a side-effect of having two rangers and lalafells are just smaller so it looks like they're closer.

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Funny how people defended their behavior and said that it would get better with more stats but it seems it does nothing for the AI. It just feels bad when those NPCs are doing things that I did not even see randoms do in dungeon.

Someone even said that the best way to do these dungeon is to go into this as a healer with two archers and stand back and just spam Engage every second because they will just go through their opener with that thus have immense DPS..I mean that does not sound much fun for me. I wish we gotten at least some new instances with them so it does not feel boring to just go through all those old dungeons again and again. I will do as much as I need for those emotions but otherwise I will not do more. There is nothing fun in that for me and I kinda wished that they used their time for something else.