PLD. Not having a gap-closer. Cover buff.

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

(this is why WARs gap closer is a DPS loss, since they originally had holmgang for this, and sometimes holmgang works less often than tempered will)

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Unless it's not. For example using it during vacuum wave knockback animation, pop too early you still get pushed back then have no gap closer, pop it late and your forced to run into range before you can use it, but pop it at just the right time and it's like you never moved, that's gotta save at least 2 gcds compared to the other scenarios. Besides, WAR has 2 anti-knockback abilities (holmgang & Inner Release), but obviously you don't just use them to prevent a knockback. So that's why it's nice to have a short 15-sec gap closer - you can use the other abilities for their actual purpose.

Aside from all that, I know it makes my pally partner super jealous when he sees me fly back into the action :cool:

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Unless it's not. For example using it during vacuum wave knockback animation, pop too early you still get pushed back then have no gap closer, pop it late and your forced to run into range before you can use it, but pop it at just the right time and it's like you never moved, that's gotta save at least 2 gcds compared to the other scenarios. Besides, WAR has 2 anti-knockback abilities (holmgang & Inner Release), but obviously you don't just use them to prevent a knockback. So that's why it's nice to have a short 15-sec gap closer - you can use the other abilities for their actual purpose.

Aside from all that, I know it makes my pally partner super jealous when he sees me fly back into the action :cool:

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Yeah, you're technically right.

Though on an unrelated note, as I mentioned before about sure cast not always working, I think, Im starting to see whats causing the issue.
I think there is a glitch that if you have dual cast proc up, and then hit sure cast, either the next spell consumes both dual cast and surecast, or the enemies push back consumes the surecast buff.

Either way, im not sure, but it seemed to only happen when dual cast proc was up.

I took my time for one fight, hit sure cast, checked to make sure it wnet off, wasnt moving or casting, saw it just now went on CD, went to continue the fight, and noticed it wasnt on my buff bar.
I popped it 1 second before exdeath started up vacuum wave, so i know it didnt wear off, and nor did i activate it too late.
And of course I got knocked back.
kept checking my buff bar to make sure it was there after that. and one more time, it happened again, it was on CD, but no buff showed up, and the only thing in common was dual cast being up.

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Originally Posted by aleph_null

Gap closer can be game-changing in terms of maximizing uptime, otherwise you'd have to rely on your healers using rescue. Also it seems like the only relevant usage of tempered will right now is o4s exdeath vacuum wave, since it doesn't work on downburst or off-balance. Lowering its cd won't really matter much unless they make it work on other stuffs.

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True but in the interim they could make it so that the ability doesn't have a cooldown of fifteen years so at least it works well for the stuff it can affect.

I had a PLD cover me from exdeaths thunder 3 once, but he stood too close to me to make sure the tether was there and he got zapped twice and died. It was quite funny but also kinda sad that he felt the need to stand that close to make sure cover did what it was supposed to do.

I've always wanted to see Cover follow the same approach that it did in older Final Fantasy titles, where your character sprite would do a little hop to the front of the character that they were defending and block the attack with a shield. Either that, or I'd like to see something in a similar vein to the HW countdown artwork for PLD, where you pick up a party member and dash to safety.

Either way, Tempered Will could certainly do with a shorter cooldown than it does now. Inner Release offers the same effect and more for double the duration and on a minute shorter cooldown, and WAR has a 15 second gap closer on top of that. I think ultimately, they should just give PLD a gap closer and make Tempered Will into a standard role action, similar to how Arm's Length and Surecast can be situationally slotted in on other roles.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

Either way, Tempered Will could certainly do with a shorter cooldown than it does now. Inner Release offers the same effect and more for double the duration and on a minute shorter cooldown, and WAR has a 15 second gap closer on top of that.

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Inner release isn't used for the knockback protection. Holmgang is used for knockback protection.

Inner release has CC protection because it would be obscenely painful to end up losing any amount of uptime during that dedicated burst... not that it's ever stopped CC from working when the game wants to be difficult.

Actually, you're far, far more likely to use Onslaught for knockback negation, given that it can be pretty much be used on demand. IR's knockback negation effect is just icing on the cake. It's not that it "needs" to be there, and it's not like players on other jobs with big burst phases have ever required that sort of catering. When the overwhelming majority of your dps is condensed into 20 second chunks of active gameplay, pretty much your only job is to get those burst windows right (you can go afk for the rest). But now that the negation effect is there on IR, there will always be smart players who find ways to use the effect to their advantage.

My point is, though, if you compare Tempered Will to actions that provide the same effect, be it IR, Arm's Length, or Surecast, they all offer shorter recasts (in spite of having additional effects). Tempered Will was grandfathered into a bad deal, and the devs never got around to updating it to match contemporary ones in SB.

Its kinda bummer as i was almost 100% sure Plunge would be a role action in SB but nope, i just see gap-closers as "must have" tank ability so that's why i taught it would end up being a role skill.

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Originally Posted by Synestra

Its kinda bummer as i was almost 100% sure Plunge would be a role action in SB but nope, i just see gap-closers as "must have" tank ability so that's why i taught it would end up being a role skill.

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I mean, neither tank had one prior to DRK, so it was kinda their thing until Onslaught was added. I think it'd be OK as a role skill in general, but I wouldn't want them to add it to the list now unless something else (such as provoke/shirk/etc) becomes native for the tanks to free up that role skill slot.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

I mean, neither tank had one prior to DRK, so it was kinda their thing until Onslaught was added. I think it'd be OK as a role skill in general, but I wouldn't want them to add it to the list now unless something else (such as provoke/shirk/etc) becomes native for the tanks to free up that role skill slot.

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Yeah current role actions are kinda fixed atm so Plunge would have to compete with them, well maybe in 5.X we will see some changes in role action selection. I just loved plunge from day one and now i love onslaught as its feels and looks badass(BG cost is kinda annoying tho)so for PLD it could be something like shield charge/rush(kinda like that new sprinting animation), at least it would fit the theme