Blood Price feels underwhemling

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

DRK mitigation isn't nearly THAT far behind, and putting that mitigation in a resource builder locked to a frequently undesirable tank stance is only going to lead to more conflict and clunkiness.

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That 20% is an arbitrary number, just used as an example. Whats funny is your complaining about locking mitigation behind tank stance which is a funny argument because the stance itself implies that your taking damage so the role in itself is to mitigate said damage. Blood weapon adds SKS, blood and MP and I've never heard anyone complain that it's clunky and a DPS skill shouldn't add resources. Lastly, if you think DRKs don't need more mitigation, your delusional.

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Originally Posted by Dauntess

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I've been bucking for DRK buffs since SB's release, and even I think 20% is a lot, even for an arbitrary number. Even a 5% DR would be excellent considering its duration and recast.

5-10% would be fine, and in fact I'd even argue necessary. It either needs this, or buffs to DM and Shadow Wall.

Blood Price's MP regeneration I honestly don't have much of a problem with. Combined with Quietus its pretty well tuned for AoE, and in single target, if you're using BP at all, it means you're in Grit, and if you're in Grit, you're getting double the mana return on Syphon Strike, which comes close to making up for the reduced MP procs.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

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DRK is in a good spot for big single target-magic hits, which happened to be the design for this tier (although it remains the costliest tank to mitigate on). It's not so great for sustained damage, physical damage, or multi-target busters. If you had a fight like A7S now, you just wouldn't run DRK, period, because you only have two mitigation cooldowns to work with outside of Living Dead (one of which is on a three minute cooldown).

I think what people are looking for is some sort of a substitute to Dark Dance to create even a semblance of addressing this gap. I know that you can cross-class Anticipation, but tank role action slots are at a premium, and neither of the other tanks have such an obvious weakness in their defensive capabilities.

Either way, there's no mistaking the fact that Blood Price is undertuned. It's nice to say that the solution is to "pull more", but how does that work outside of casual content? Most raid content damage tends to be single target. Even if you want to use it for the blood gain during downtime, the 20 blood that it restores doesn't even reimburse half of the cost of swapping into Grit.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

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Because DRK's mitigation IS bad, for reasons people have outlined repeatedly. Before 70, you have two defensive cooldowns, with one of them being a cross-role skill. TBN isn't the kind of ability that should be used for fluff damage like it currently is; a low cooldown rampart equivalent would be the perfect answer, as this is a problem neither paladin nor warrior have.

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Originally Posted by Dauntess

Whats funny is your complaining about locking mitigation behind tank stance which is a funny argument because the stance itself implies that your taking damage so the role in itself is to mitigate said damage. Blood weapon adds SKS, blood and MP and I've never heard anyone complain that it's clunky and a DPS skill shouldn't add resources. Lastly, if you think DRKs don't need more mitigation, your delusional.

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Name another mitigation CD locked behind a tank stance. Note: Inner Beast is not a CD, and Equilibrium is technically a heal.

I never said DRKs don't need more mitagation. I said that a 15+ seconds' Rampart per 40 seconds would be both overkill and misplaced.

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Originally Posted by Capn_Goggles

Because DRK's mitigation IS bad, for reasons people have outlined repeatedly.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Why does everyone want to turn Blood Price into a 40s CD Rampart (only difference being that it can't save you from being one-shot)?...

DRK mitigation isn't nearly THAT far behind...

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So you honestly think it deserves 20% mitigation up over 37.5% of the time (so long as you're in Grit for its every CD)? Fair enough. But why would you want to have that added mitigation to be locked behind Grit? Rather than literally any other sort of addition?

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Originally Posted by Lyth

DRK is in a good spot for big single target-magic hits, which happened to be the design for this tier (although it remains the costliest tank to mitigate on). It's not so great for sustained damage, physical damage, or multi-target busters. If you had a fight like A7S now, you just wouldn't run DRK, period, because you only have two mitigation cooldowns to work with outside of Living Dead (one of which is on a three minute cooldown).

I think what people are looking for is some sort of a substitute to Dark Dance to create even a semblance of addressing this gap. I know that you can cross-class Anticipation, but tank role action slots are at a premium, and neither of the other tanks have such an obvious weakness in their defensive capabilities.

Either way, there's no mistaking the fact that Blood Price is undertuned. It's nice to say that the solution is to "pull more", but how does that work outside of casual content? Most raid content damage tends to be single target. Even if you want to use it for the blood gain during downtime, the 20 blood that it restores doesn't even reimburse half of the cost of swapping into Grit.

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Which is why I'd like to see a physical defense spender re-added. But Blood Price doesn't need to be a defensive in itself, especially so long as it remains locked to Grit and Grit remains at its ridiculous cost and clunkiness; it just needs to feel like something's actually happening, especially in single-target. If it's to be forced on us via Grit, I'd like to see some serious revisions to reapplying the and dropping the stance. Otherwise I'd like to see them decoupled again.

Because the quitus mp change i have fun with DRK despite Blood Price's lowered mp. But a major issue I do have is that it is basically 100% useless on bosses now, you'd be lucky if you got even 1500 mp back.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Name another mitigation CD locked behind a tank stance. Note: Inner Beast is not a CD, and Equilibrium is technically a heal.

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Inner beast is still mitigation gates behind tank stance. You aren't using it for DPS, that's for sure. Like I said, 20% is an arbitrary number and as much as I'd like SS or DD back, SE is trying to get rid of ability bloat (which I disagree with) and I don't see them adding more abilities.

I feel like DRK are in a pretty good spot, however i feel like they should just get rid of blood price and just make blood weapon usable on tank stance. I mean blood weapon has higher mana returns, blood gain and it gives atk speed and reduced tp cost on your hate combo and heal combo.
They could also make BP work like vengance does on the WAR.

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Originally Posted by Dauntess

Inner beast is still mitigation gates behind tank stance. You aren't using it for DPS, that's for sure. Like I said, 20% is an arbitrary number and as much as I'd like SS or DD back, SE is trying to get rid of ability bloat (which I disagree with) and I don't see them adding more abilities.

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But that's just it. It comes at cost of DPS. It is not a freely given CD. There are no actual mitigation CDs locked behind tank stance. And there may be a good reason for that.

Consider: if Rampart were enough to live, why would you want to waste 450 potency to use both it and tank stance? Alternatively, if you're forced to use tank stance already, then what is the additional mitigation for? It's certainly not just to survive. The tank stance alone does that. At that point it's replacing a Shadow Wall. By the very fact that you couple one CD to your highly expensive tank stance, it cannot function in the same way. That's not a nerf to mitigation at its fullest, but it does create additional conflict. You're losing a massive amount of output each time you swap back into that stance. And the last thing you want in Grit's current state is to be cycling it for Blood Price, dropping for Blood Weapon, and cycling back. That's why I'm saying—anywhere else. Put that mitigation anywhere else.

And let's not pretend this has anything to do with bloat. You don't exchange x native skills and y external skills for x-1 and a y+1 of the same total and call it reduced bloat. You don't leave Protect, of all things, as a choice to be swapped in, cast before combat, and swapped back out. As it applies to tanks, the change was effectively no more or less than a nerf, relative to other tanks, to DRK maximum mitigation, by offering all other tanks Dark Dance regular while stripping DRKs of DA-DD (and without even getting an additional Rampart to show for it; only a removed skin and name). Now DA-DD, too, was a skill with opportunity cost, albeit it minor compared to its average gains. But more importantly it offered something to do with all that mana, a measure of control. And without it our only defensive spender is DM, limited to anti-magic, whereas DA-DD, while RNG-dependent, was universally useful. The result is that DRK has been left imbalanced, all the more niche, and with a poor balance of opportunities for mana building and spending.

The current state of blood price is terrible! Remember the glorious days of unlimited mana and infinite abysal drain spam? Mindless as hell, but so much fun!