BLM should be the SAM of casters.

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Originally Posted by Ferrasper

It more has to do with how our damage is gimped when we have to move a lot due to fight mechanics, so to make up for our lost damage, we need a potency increase to get close to that of Sam to make up for our lost mobility. RDMs are currently beating both SMN and BLM in terms of damage because of their mobility.

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that something that is tie to the jobs, you are a caster, that the only thing that really a bother, worst, sometimes you move only a bit and can return to dps like it's nothing a melee that need to move, need to move back for return to his dps. plus black mage have triple cast and the role skill for instant cast a spell.

even if the blm become top tier dps for the ranged, he will still behind the melee, because it's like this... less impacted by any mechanic a boss can toss you.

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Originally Posted by Hanayumi

SAM and RDM are a bit overpowered at the moment, nothing is remotely close to a decent SAM's output and rdm is way quicker at casting and is just fairly easy to pick up. Right now of the casters, smn is in bad shape, a few friends have been noticing pets and bahamut dont seem to be scaling very well, with the same gear a rdm's 550 atk does more then smn's 650 atk when they crit for some reason. As for BLM im pretty content with it at the moment, we got most of burst aoe damage back, eno is hell of a lot easier to maintain even if you do end up having to move a lot, 30 sec recast on eno, transpose can work to extend it and can always just quickcast or triplecast if you're really running all over, its more of learning a fight and knowing where and when to use use your skills. But yeah just need to wait a see what they decide to do, nerf the new jobs or buff the old ones, somethings definitely going to need to change.

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*sighs* SAM have only his dps for himself... then yes he will be the top dps whatever you want to say about. he is a melee with near no buff to bring to the group.
RDM is a mix between ranged and melee dps, yes most of his dps come from ranged, but he have his burst totally tie to melee dps, means his place before the blm make sense. (even if i find the ogcd of the rdm a bit too powerfull)

plus i want to remind people, blm was never ever ever the top dps... and will never be. before he had monk and dragoon, later nin was added over him and it's normal, but if you look the stats given by fflogs, you can notice that the difference in terms of dps is not that violent that some people want to make it look like. depend of the group your dps can be increase a lot more. then.... *shrugs*

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Originally Posted by magnanimousCynic

What's worse is that we can also use an altered 2.x rotation, where we don't use F4, at a mere 3-5% DPS loss over 3.x/4.x rotations. If that tells you nothing then I don't know what to say.

EDIT #1: Here's a link to the thread that has most of the math. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ers-on-4.0-BLM

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Just tested 2.0 rotation vs 4.0 rotation on a dummy.
3200DPS with 2.0 4100DPS with 4.0
900DPS loss in best case scenario. I ran Susano Ex today and did 3400DPS overall, which is still 200DPS more than 2.0 on a dummy even with all the movement.
A lot more than 3-5% I can assure you.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

that something that is tie to the jobs, you are a caster, that the only thing that really a bother, worst, sometimes you move only a bit and can return to dps like it's nothing a melee that need to move, need to move back for return to his dps. plus black mage have triple cast and the role skill for instant cast a spell.

even if the blm become top tier dps for the ranged, he will still behind the melee, because it's like this... less impacted by any mechanic a boss can toss you.

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I don't mind being behind melee. What bothers me is the design philosophy of SAM isn't applied to BLM which is it's ranged counterpart. BLM should be not be beaten by RDM just because RDM has better mobility.

Is Samurai really this overhyped? I gotta try it out before the nerfs.....

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Originally Posted by Valinis

Just tested 2.0 rotation vs 4.0 rotation on a dummy.
3200DPS with 2.0 4100DPS with 4.0
900DPS loss in best case scenario. I ran Susano Ex today and did 3400DPS overall, which is still 200DPS more than 2.0 on a dummy even with all the movement.
A lot more than 3-5% I can assure you.

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If YOU did the math you'd find that your 2.x dummy rotation only did about 6% weaker then your Susano EX run. The purpose of the new 2.x rotation is to give up 5% DPS in exchange for much needed mobility and a much less punishing rotation.

But if you think the math is that off, then feel free to go to the thread I linked and share your findings and rotation there.

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Originally Posted by magnanimousCynic

If YOU did the math you'd find that your 2.x dummy rotation only did about 6% weaker then your Susano EX run. The purpose of the new 2.x rotation is to give up 5% DPS in exchange for much needed mobility and a much less punishing rotation.

But if you think the math is that off, then feel free to go to the thread I linked and share your findings and rotation there.

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But I was moving in Susano Ex, and not moving when doing 2.0 rotation. If I was moving doing 2.0 rotation as well it would be lower. I still did more DPS. Best case a lot more DPS.

Math is all well and good on paper, but you can't argue with numbers from actual practice. Maybe I am just so amazing at BLM that my 4.0 rotation is far superior to 2.0 rotation? (spoiler: unlikely)

The obvious answer is to go run Susano Ex with the 2.0 rotation and see how you do there.

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Originally Posted by Age_of_Oblivion

The obvious answer is to go run Susano Ex with the 2.0 rotation and see how you do there.

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Obviously lower DPS. My best case 2.0 rotation is already 200 DPS lower than my 4.0 rotation during Susano.

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Originally Posted by Ferrasper

I don't mind being behind melee. What bothers me is the design philosophy of SAM isn't applied to BLM which is it's ranged counterpart. BLM should be not be beaten by RDM just because RDM has better mobility.

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he is beaten because part of his dps is partly melee, that most of it.

Both SMN and BLM beat RDM when AoE involved, thing is this isn't that important yet.
If there would be a few more adds BLMs Foul would be way more powerful. Right now in all 4 raid tiers (though normal) there is one add.
How should BLM/SMN be top if they can't utilize their toolkit at 100%, with all always-AoE abilities always only hitting one and near 'worthless' abilities like bane/painflare?
Imo the biggest advantage of bringing a BLM/SMN is that they can do most damage on adds with least cost therefor minimizing single target dps loss for the whole raid.

So idk if it would be fair to buff their single target dps to be way above RDMs damage.