What will happen to the Novice Network?

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

I know that, but say you did 1000 dungeons and got 300 comms on Tank, and you were a good tank, you can then buy a healer and DPS and pretend that you know anything about these roles without ever playing them. I know the system works as well as it can, but the point of that requirement is so that we know that the player has a well rounded knowledge of all three roles, and can make basic comments on all three, which is completely negated by the introduction of jump potions.

Two routes could be taken, either increase the requirement to level 70, or make it so that instead of 1000 dungeon etc., it is 300 on tank, 300 on healer, 300 on dps (or both could be done).

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I actually wouldn't mind if they altered the dungeon runs to a certain amount per role. That way it'll prove you have experience in each role.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

I know that, but say you did 1000 dungeons and got 300 comms on Tank, and you were a good tank, you can then buy a healer and DPS and pretend that you know anything about these roles without ever playing them. I know the system works as well as it can, but the point of that requirement is so that we know that the player has a well rounded knowledge of all three roles, and can make basic comments on all three, which is completely negated by the introduction of jump potions.

Two routes could be taken, either increase the requirement to level 70, or make it so that instead of 1000 dungeon etc., it is 300 on tank, 300 on healer, 300 on dps (or both could be done).

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Just increasing the level wouldn't do anything. Anyone can PotD to cap, the 300/300/300 is something that already should have been done IMHO, so I will agree there.

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Originally Posted by Aramina

Just increasing the level wouldn't do anything. Anyone can PotD to cap, the 300/300/300 is something that already should have been done IMHO, so I will agree there.

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I was leaning more towards the 300/300/300 anyway, increasing to level cap just makes sense because that is when they become an endgame player (like I said though, not until 4.1-4.2 when the majority of players are at that point)

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Agreed. Right now we have a situation where the majority of mentors are raiders/end-gamers and at the same time there are a lot of long term veteran players such as myself who enjoy helping new players discover the game, but don't qualify as Mentors. How do we transition the mentor system into being what it was intended to be rather than a new achievement for more hardcore players to get?

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Only reason more mentors are raiders/endgamers is they have spammed dungeons, trials and raids more often. So doesn't it make sense that mentors should have more knowledge of the fights? Casual players will still filter in but at a more slower pace which in my opinion makes sense.

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

Only reason more mentors are raiders/endgamers is they have spammed dungeons, trials and raids more often. So doesn't it make sense that mentors should have more knowledge of the fights? Casual players will still filter in but at a more slower pace which in my opinion makes sense.

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Sure it makes sense, but your post contains the reason I think it's a pointless condition;

"they have spammed dungeons, trials and raids more often"

Spamming content while overgeared doesn't teach new players a thing. All it does is show that you can overpower something. If Mentors are meant to be teaching players, then the players used to spamming content or skipping phases in trials are not the ones to be teaching new players in level appropriate gear how to handle specific mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

I know that, but say you did 1000 dungeons and got 300 comms on Tank, and you were a good tank, you can then buy a healer and DPS and pretend that you know anything about these roles without ever playing them. I know the system works as well as it can, but the point of that requirement is so that we know that the player has a well rounded knowledge of all three roles, and can make basic comments on all three, which is completely negated by the introduction of jump potions.

Two routes could be taken, either increase the requirement to level 70, or make it so that instead of 1000 dungeon etc., it is 300 on tank, 300 on healer, 300 on dps (or both could be done).

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Spreading the dungeon/trial/raid experience requirement (number of clears) across the 3 roles appears to me to be a very sound way to handle it - along with level requirements. I'd also suggest disqualifying unsync'd runs (unless they are already ignored), we don't need players used to skipping mechanics due to overgearing to be mentors.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

I know that, but say you did 1000 dungeons and got 300 comms on Tank, and you were a good tank, you can then buy a healer and DPS and pretend that you know anything about these roles without ever playing them.

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But this is already a thing. The jump potions isn't going to change anything.

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Originally Posted by Pence

I'm a bit curious as to what will happen to the NN. If HW exp is buffed like ARR was, then surely being 60 is not really mentor level....considering people can skip it entirely for a role on a boosted character AND people who are at 60 only won't have the 60+ skill knowledge.

I'm of the opinion that current mentors will be grandfathered in to ensure it maintains health after launch, and there will be new L70 requirements for new mentors.

What do you think?

Edit: While I'm posting about NN, I'd love to see job specific mentors. Maybe add a top tier dummy and if you beat it your mentor status can have a job symbol next to it. Or one step further just a /nnmch /nnwhm /nnmnk chat.

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In other games that have this, usually the number of mentors is capped in the first place, and if you don't constantly renew your standing, you get dropped from it, but can re-apply every time, as long as nobody else is better qualified has taken your spot. There is a specific piece of gear you have to wear to take advantage of those bonuses, and that wouldn't work for FFXIV. As new content is released, anyone who has the mentor status keeps it until they are ineligible.

Eg, in one game, the game tracks what you play, and how many times you've actually "mentor'd" people, and if you get the mentor status but haven't mentored anyone during the time, or have a high failure/abandon rate on content, you aren't eligible to re-apply for the next 30 days.

So basically one way of ensuring that only people who are helping actually have it is to be logged into a kind of "newbie duty finder" leaderboard. Where anytime someone with a 'sprout' queues in the duty finder, it always tries to put at least one mentor in the party. If there are no sprouts, it then attempts to match them with players who haven't passed the content ("a player is new to this duty" message.) Mentors will have a Pass/Fail report cart for each dungeon, and those with more fails than passes when newbies are present are dropped from mentoring for 30 days.

Mentors do not get to "Vote Abandon", exit, or disconnect from a duty, and doing so counts as a fail.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

I know that, but say you did 1000 dungeons and got 300 comms on Tank, and you were a good tank, you can then buy a healer and DPS and pretend that you know anything about these roles without ever playing them.

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Mentors aren't exactly there to give specific job advice.
It's more of a general advice thing.

Sure it's handy to have such knowledge but they aren't designed to be an all-knowing source of information.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

Mentors aren't exactly there to give specific job advice.
It's more of a general advice thing.

Sure it's handy to have such knowledge but they aren't designed to be an all-knowing source of information.

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Job specific, no, role specific, yes. The requirement of a mentor is a well rounded knowledge of the battle system from all three roles. You don't need to know what rouse does on SCH, but you do need to know at least one healer so you have the context of fights from a healer perspective and can help a novice healer. Otherwise the novice asks for help and your response is "no clue, Ive never played healer"

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Originally Posted by XiXiQ

The mentors are there to assist the NEW players. It will make no difference to a leaf whether a level 60 or 70 player helped them.

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Mentors don't only assist new players; they are also there to help returning players. Many of which are 60. Setting the mentor req. to 70 will ensure the mentors have enough general knowledge to answer simple leveling questions and help with the content.