Skill vs Job

Blm is a bit special in this rating because you need a half decent team or you worth nothing, but if you are in a half decent team, you can clearly more carry than a smn. Plus it put a higher pressure than smn: You can't really let him free cast... But you can't let free cast the healer too, which creat really annoying situation in solo queue.
The more I play smn, the more I think it was down to low tier (in terme of solo queue) because I m completly incapable to carry something now when it was easy to carry with the higher burst (well obviously).

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Originally Posted by DxWings

My point is, is that a PLD doesn't have time to watch their teams full time. But a WAR has to be DPSing full time. Because a PLD has a healer that's doing the bulk of the healing, they only have to watch out for their team whenever it's needed. A WAR, although, having two DPS on their side still has to help DPS to net a kill for their team. With this line of thought, I think playing a PLD is much easier than playing a WAR.

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Sorry, but I'm gonna have to disagree here. If anything, Pld's have to divide their focus FAR more than any War does. To be a good Pld in PvP means that you're not just watching your team. You're watching both your team and the enemy team full time.

As you said, War's do basically one thing: Dps (even when they're suppressing an enemy healer). All they have to really worry about is the target that is right in front of them. Pld's, on the other hand, have to divide their time between supporting their Dps (Full Swing/DoTs/Burst), defending their healer (clemency, DV, testudo, cover, or stunning enemy dps), AND running interference on the enemy healer (stuns/silence/knockback) so that the Dps can take full advantage of the Full Swing Timer. At any given time, a Pld has to make a judgement call on when and where they are needed most, and how they can best fulfill that role. To make that judgement, they have to be more aware of what's happening around them then just about anyone. On top of this, they also have to adequately judge which CD's they are willing to sacrifice in the process, because they won't that CD again for another 2 minutes.

Pld defensive utility is not so easily managed. Almost all of their defensive moves are on a 180 second CD timer. That's a long time to be working around. You can pop them on the fly, sure, but you'd be wasting them if you use them at the wrong moment. Even Clemency can't be used willy-nilly. A Pld has to exercise good judgement for every move they use or else it's wasted utility. By comparison, the only judgement War's have to make is which target they want to attack, and even then, they're not solely responsible for killing.

Both Pld's and War's have access to Full Swing, and all teams have two Dps characters. If two Dps can kill a target with a Pld, than a War's additional burst is a nice bonus, but it's not required for that kill. So long as a War is providing the same Dps support as a Pld, then anything extra is just icing on the cake. Further still, a War's burst is readily available far more frequently than any of Pld's kit (that includes both offensive and defensive), so by comparison it's much easier to use because the consequences are far less severe if you don't score that kill. None of this is to downplay how hard it is to play war, mind you. It's still a tank, and tanks are one of the hardest roles to play in PvP, but I definitely wouldn't say that War is more difficult to use in PvP settings than Pld. Having a singular focus on dps burst to score kills (which War's are ultimately not responsible for) is not equal in difficulty to dividing your attention across two entire parties and managing how best to use every CD you have while adapting to the circumstances in which you have to use them.

Only thing id change is pld and drk for the first set. But other than that you are spot on with my list

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Originally Posted by Slib

Only thing id change is pld and drk for the first set. But other than that you are spot on with my list

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This is in reply to renault. Phone wont let me edit lol

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Originally Posted by Februs

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While I don't disagree with everything you've said here, I'm still in the opinion that it's still THAT much harder to kill players than it is to protect/heal players after the initial bursting phase.
Its just that almost all sustain dmg after the initial bursts can be healed up in one or two spell casts. This creates a situation where PLD doesn't have to work all that hard to protect their team; in my opinion any way.

Sure do love this revolving door of first time healers, nothing more enjoyable than sitting in a que for 15 minutes and losing in 2.

What a fun system, I love it.

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Originally Posted by Slib

Only thing id change is pld and drk for the first set. But other than that you are spot on with my list

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Personally, I'm not sure that Drk should even be included in the list because no matter how well you actually play that job, you're still at a disadvantage compared to Pld and War. That's not so much a skill issue as it is a design flaw >.>

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Originally Posted by DxWings

While I don't disagree with everything you've said here, I'm still in the opinion that it's still THAT much harder to kill players than it is to protect/heal players after the initial bursting phase.

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To each their own. Honestly, most players opt for tunnel visioning one thing and one thing only while they're actually in-match, so it tends to be a lot simpler in practice than it is in writing. It's a bit of a different story when actually attempting to maximize what your job can actually do, though. If party defense was the only job of a Pld while in game, then I'd agree with you. War would have more pressure, in that circumstance. That's not the only job they can do, though. They have more party potential than that, and balancing all of their utility can be challenging; so, I'm still going to side with them for having the higher skill ceiling in PvP.

http://imgur.com/hrYbYko.jpg

Well, I know that Whms are supposed to be able to pull more heals than astro... But I don't see it often >.>

if anyone thinks that WAR is harder or not better at Solo Q carrying than PLD then you need your brain checked. As a PLD, if your DPS can't break the threshold then you can't peel cause what's the point? Not to mention balancing utility instead of just double fell cleave RIP.

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Originally Posted by Jubez187

if anyone thinks that WAR is harder or not better at Solo Q carrying than PLD then you need your brain checked. As a PLD, if your DPS can't break the threshold then you can't peel cause what's the point? Not to mention balancing utility instead of just double fell cleave RIP.

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Yeah PLD requires good team to shine as its more utility/support focused while WAR is more like one man army due burst and huge amount of self-heals it has. I use FL as an example: 1)Team has poor DPS and/or no healers = WAR time! 2) Team has atleast one healer and good DPS = PLD time!