People who ignore their threat guage

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

The vast majority of dps that don't watch their hate do crap dps anyway, so you shouldn't have issues holding hate over them. That is why the tank is normally and often fairly blamed for being bad.

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Um when it's a dps who does good damage but still button mashes it's a problem. Plus in certain early dungeons where you only have flash+2 hit combo on gld/pld it turns into a yo yo war of enmity against some dps while you are waiting for hit 2 of your combo and/or flash to be up (I've tested this extensively by hawkeyeing the enmity guage after every action I do and the dps does, and there is literally nothing more optimal you can do than using 2 hit combo and/or flash spam)

For example:

Fast Blade>Savage Blade(you're top)
Fire(dps is top)
Fast Blade(dps still top)
Fire(dps still top)
Savage Blade and Flash (you're top)
Fire (dps is top again)

In this scenario there is literally fuck all you can do but watch the yo yo. The only thing that will work is if the dps swaps targets or just stops attacking periodically. Stop acting like enmity is always on the tank 100% in any dungeon and if it comes off them at any time in any dungeon (particularly a low level one) they are a shit tank who fails at their job. It's a cancerous unrealistic notion that other bad players use to cover up when they play bad. Everyone should learn how to control their own threat not just the tank

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Originally Posted by Nezkeys79

Um when it's a dps who does good damage but still button mashes it's a problem. Plus in certain early dungeons where you only have flash+2 hit combo on gld/pld it turns into a yo yo war of enmity while you are waiting for hit 2 and/or flash to be up against some dps (I've tested this extensively by hawkeyeing the enmity guage and there is literally nothing more you can do than using flash with your 2 hit combo)

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Early levels, anyone can tank. Losing threat there is rarely an issue.

Max levels, you have every single tool you need to hold threat unless you are severely outgeared. In that case, odds are the DPS pulling off you are geared enough to act as pseduo-tanks, so it's rarely an issue there.

In short: Calm your tits.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Early levels, anyone can tank. Losing threat there is rarely an issue.

Max levels, you have every single tool you need to hold threat unless you are severely outgeared. In that case, odds are the DPS pulling off you are geared enough to act as pseduo-tanks, so it's rarely an issue there.

In short: Calm your tits.

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Meh I always have the strongest gear for my level before joining an instance. Holding hate at 50+ is a joke and the amount of times you will lose hate are very small, and IF you do you will always reclaim it instantly with provoke+scorn+halone on top of the shite you get in the lower dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

No. I am not there to hold their hand and play mother. I can hold hate just fine if I wanted to, but if they see me and the other DPS/ healer attacking the same target and consistently go after another, eventually I'm just going to leave them to it. DPS have one job and that is to attack, and if they're so inept they can't even focus their attacks on the right monster then I'm not going to cover for them. Terrible DPS get enough of a free pass in this game as it is.

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There are many times when I don't want to waste a combo finisher on a mob with low health and so I switch targets. Usually though when I'm attacking a target that the tank isn't, its because I see it as more of a threat. Like Exploding enemies, bee that use final sting or mobs with AOE attacks that I can stun.

For the times that I'm attacking the wrong mob because I'm being tunnel visioned, I try to switch to the Tanks target but the tank, being a responsible player, switches to the target I was just attacking and so the two of us are on different targets again. We both wait to see if the other will switch targets and then we both switch at once. Makes it look like I'm trying to avoid the tank when I'm actually trying to sync up with them.

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Originally Posted by Ragology

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I was talking about trash mobs where it's very obvious who is attacking what, but one of the DPS still fixates on an entirely different target several feet away.

Whether it makes me a "crappy" tank or not, I'm not going out of my way to rescue them when they're not even bothering to do their job right. The Hall of the Novice even teaches about this now.

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Originally Posted by Nezkeys79

You sound like a bandwagoner that adopts the cancerous mentality of some people in DF. Your attitude is that it's ludicrous to suggest the healer or dps may be at fault and automatically start with "you're a failure" or "you can't tank" or "do your job adequately" or "you should be rotating your combos" (which I do btw). Bad players blame tanks for everything. I'm not saying there aren't bad tanks just that the minority of these retard button mashers is enough % to be cancerous and annoying

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If it's large enough percentage to warrant all of the posts you make about it then the problem is almost certainly you. I'm aware there are crap players in every role. I see them every day. I've been blamed for pulling too big by DPS that I've out DPS'd in Defiance. Anyway, I'm sticking by what I said.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

Whether it makes me a "crappy" tank or not, I'm not going out of my way to rescue them when they're not even bothering to do their job right. The Hall of the Novice even teaches about this now.

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You know...I was interested as to what the hall of novice teaches for healing and dps, because if the extent of the learning is "just keep them alive" meh, or for the dps "use all your strongest attacks whenever it's your job to do as much damage as possible at any given time",,,,meh again.

I'll have to check them both out I guess hopefully they have some sound advice on there

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Originally Posted by Jamillion

If it's large enough percentage to warrant all of the posts you make about it then the problem is almost certainly you. I'm aware there are crap players in every role. I see them every day. I've been blamed for pulling too big by DPS that I've out DPS'd in Defiance. Anyway, I'm sticking by what I said.

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And I'm sticking to what I said about you too, because your in your last reply you just displayed the same condescending attitude. You can't defend a player who does an action on the tank or the mob while they are running in to pull and shield lob hasn't even popped up. And that's only one of the retarded things I'm talking about. I can't believe you are still taking this stance that healers and dps are never wrong when it comes to enmity. Also, here's an analogy for you concerning your percentages comment....

Extremist religious fanatics make up a small minority of the worlds population...doesn't mean it's not a problem and people won't rant about it

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Originally Posted by Nezkeys79

You know...I was interested as to what the hall of novice teaches for healing and dps, because if the extent of the learning is "just keep them alive" meh, or for the dps "use all your strongest attacks whenever it's your job to do as much damage as possible at any given time",,,,meh again.

I'll have to check them both out I guess hopefully they have some sound advice on there

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I did HotN on my alt for the gear, it was a while ago now so I can't remember everything but two things I distinctly recall them teaching you is a) avoid AoEs (lol) and b) attack the same target the tank is focusing on.

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Originally Posted by Jamillion

If it's large enough percentage to warrant all of the posts you make about it then the problem is almost certainly you. I'm aware there are crap players in every role. I see them every day. I've been blamed for pulling too big by DPS that I've out DPS'd in Defiance. Anyway, I'm sticking by what I said.

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It's always a WAR...

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

I did HotN on my alt for the gear, it was a while ago now so I can't remember everything but two things I distinctly recall them teaching you is a) avoid AoEs (lol) and b) attack the same target the tank is focusing on.

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Hmm so sounds like nothing about enmity there then. maybe they should do this...let them start and then if they do anything early have a message pop up saying "seven hells! you attracted attention because you was the first person to take action on the enemy. wait for the tank and watch your enmity bar or else the mobs will turn on you" or something lol. There should also be something in there abut if they do get aggro a message saying "run towards the tank because pray tell he has the tools to save you. If you run away from him it makes it harder for him to save you". "Just remember to always keep an eye on that there guage!". It's a shame if the other jobs aren't getting some sort of tuition, however basic, on enmity control.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

It's always a WAR...

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Yeah I've noticed that :(