Why nerf collective unconscious?

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

From a logical standpoint, I can see the argument about stun breaking a channeled ability - but arguing logic and realism in an MMO where you don't permanently break your body jumping off an insane cliff or other such illogical things is probably a bad point to tout, lol.

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Well, I'm not really arguing this from a realism standpoint, but from the standpoint of the games own logic. It just strikes me as weird when something that would normally stop a cast or any action at all, would really not stop an ability that needs to be channeled constantly. Collective Unconsciousness itself doesn't suggest it should render you immune to these things and yet it just kinda ignores it anyway. It's one thing for a game/book/etc. to break the rules of our reality, but breaking the rules of its own reality is another thing entirely.

It should have been PvP only. I'm disappointed in this weird nerf in terms of PvE. It won't change too much but it means sometimes it will stop casting suddenly due to weird mechanics =-/

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

From a logical standpoint, I can see the argument about stun breaking a channeled ability - but arguing logic and realism in an MMO where you don't permanently break your body jumping off an insane cliff or other such illogical things is probably a bad point to tout, lol.

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The "It's Channeled" line of thinking is less about "realism" and more about system consistency. It's a magic spell that heals wounds and proportionally reduces damage, realism was out the window from the start regardless of it's interrupted by stuns or not.

When I say system consistency I'm talking about the way we interact with game elements as game elements. Just about every thing in the game that roots you in place and prevents other actions such as casting, object interaction,and certain items will be interrupted by a stun as well. This isn't demanded by realism but instead by well-established game play conventions across many games. If there was some spell that let you move around while casting with no mention in the tooltip it let you do so and without a trait or class ability that established it as being different, it'd be weird. It could be balanced and still be very strange and feel kind of off.

When I say the change is "logical" I mean that it fits cleanly within the framework of abilities in the game, and within the context of RPGs as a whole. Certainly the trope of "Stuns and damage stop casting/channelling" can be traced to trying to simulate "Realism" with roots in D&D but we're kind of several degrees removed from that at this point.

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Originally Posted by Heilstos

And its not to hard and make the "10% less dmg" like the regen buff and nerf this buff in pvp.

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While it might not be hard to implement, from a balance stand point S-E probably wouldn't implement this because of the potential raw power this can hold. Could you imagine giving a tank Collective Unconciousness, giving them a 15s HoT for 150 Potency with 10% damage mitigation? Then you Time Dilation that to make that 30s long. Then you Celestial Opposition that to make it 35s long? Combine that with Diurnal Aspected Benefic (38s) and, heck, let's say an Enhanced Bole for 15% damage reduction for 50s on top of all this. It's a lot of eggs in one basket but that's a lot of healing and mitigation right there from a single person.

Also giving the party of 20s of 10% damage reduction (when combined with Celestial Opposition) while maintain the freedom to deal with any mechanics they want in those 20s would probably not be something S-E would settle with either.

I like the idea of packaging the 10% reduction with the HoT to get around the nerf in a PvE aspect - it's a smart way to do it if they would try to maintain it. But I doubt it'll fly due to balancing reasons.

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Realism is probably the wrong word to use on my part and I understand the rationale for gaming conventions too.

Funny enough, the ultimate counter point to "gaming conventions" and logic would if "S-E (or any MMO developed) wills it, they will make it happen, and nothing we can say or do will sway them". It's kinda funny when I think about it like that.

This wouldn't bother me in the slightest if the buff from CU was always instant instead of anywhere between instant and the 3 second server tick.

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

While it might not be hard to implement, from a balance stand point S-E probably wouldn't implement this because of the potential raw power this can hold. Could you imagine giving a tank Collective Unconciousness, giving them a 15s HoT for 150 Potency with 10% damage mitigation? Then you Time Dilation that to make that 30s long. Then you Celestial Opposition that to make it 35s long? Combine that with Diurnal Aspected Benefic (38s) and, heck, let's say an Enhanced Bole for 15% damage reduction for 50s on top of all this. It's a lot of eggs in one basket but that's a lot of healing and mitigation right there from a single person.

Also giving the party of 20s of 10% damage reduction (when combined with Celestial Opposition) while maintain the freedom to deal with any mechanics they want in those 20s would probably not be something S-E would settle with either.

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Hey Ghishlain Pyrial,



The question would be is it so usefull to ignor the Combi. from cards + Time Dilation/Celestial Opposition. That option is to cut both ways.

You explain how strong the Collective Unconciousness+ Time Dilation/Celestial Opposition. (In the right way! Great)

If you use Celestial Opposition for Collective Unconciousness. You can lose it to buff you Light äther / Cards. The CD from Collective Unconciousness is not low for 2 min cd!
Only for 5 sek more Def? I am not quite sure if this would be a great deal.

If you use Time Dilation for Collective Unconciousness. You lose the the chance to extend Cards (until Bole). The CD from Time Dilation is not low for 90 sek. cd!
That can be a strong Combo. The problem is that your cards should have higher priority in raidcontant.

I belive its not so hard if you look that the Sch can spread his eye for eye and Schilds. And the Whm has got Assize.

I think the Master of the Buffs (I mean the Ast) should allowed to use this ability.

I can't think of a single time I've ever been stunned while using CU...so I doubt this 'nerf' will even be noticed by most people.

Honestly, I thought it already got cancelled by stuns.

When I first realized I could use it while stunned I thought for sure it was a mistake by SE. Now I suspect that they delayed fixing it because AST was already frowned upon by the community and giving it a nerf would only make matters worse. Now that AST is valued a little higher, I guess they probably felt it was ready for the nerf gun.

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Originally Posted by Heilstos

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Erm... Yeah may aswell share my mega combo then >.>

Draw> random card> synasty> aspected benefic, swiftcast, aspected helios, use card or redraw > collective unconcious> use card> time dialation> lightspeed> aether minipulation> celestrial opposition> cleric stance> gravity spam for free

Enjoy ur massive healing and crazy burst damage
With crit/spell speed this combo is INSANE, especially if u pulled a bole/spear first which reduce all ur cooldowns or damage to tank

With this combo my HoT is ticking 4-6k every 3sec, i have infinite MP, and rapidly casting gravity thanks to lightspeed and spell speed i can get a lot more gravity off within 10secs, and yes i know about the 25% damage reduction lightspeed gives but who cares im blowing stuff up and not using any MP to do so

I have done this combo a thousand times, even got some players to turn and play ast because of how strong we are... As AST *use ur kit* is the only thing im saying

If u pull arrow throw it on urself, and just LOL and the damage u doing, if it was not for aether manipulation and our passive quelling strikes on sects.... I be a very dead ast

But this is for 4man content, in raids it depends what is going on at the time, CU is the strongest HoT in game and is *free*

Time dialation is super strong if u pull a bole if used with combo its *free* healing to the tank meaning more dps uptime for both healers

AST are the kings when it comes to healing overtime no job in game can pull a 4-6k hot (more if tank use coverlesance or on a warrior in defiance stance) i mean 20secs for full out dps? Yes please and if ur with a SCH.... It turns stupidly OP my highest HoT iv seen with a sch and his buffs is 8-9k every 3 secs none crit >.>

NOW u can scream nerfs lol