So, what's with the lack of Machinist in DF?

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

If I que as a tank and see 2 machinists or 2 bards I usually leave the group and try again in 30 minutes depending on how fast they kill the first encounter.

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As much as it sucks to have 2 DPS with a lower potential, this is a weird and rude behaviour. You're wasting a lot of time for them to potentially save yourself a few minutes (not really because you get the penalty).

I want to reiterate that the potential is less, but not necessarily their DPS. A bard can do ~90% of a black mage for example. However, I've yet to see anyone in DF pull better than 86% of my damage done with my ilvl 212 summoner (yes I realize aoe on summoner is insane, but most summoners I actually see pull 73% or less and the one who hit 86% was a monk.) Long story short, the player skill is more important than the job played.

I have never seen 2 MCH in a dungeon. A BRD and MCH but never both together. OP keep in mind how the system pairs groups and ideally tries its best to combine 1 ranged and 1 melee dps. If you are a MCH there is an extremely rare chance that you would get paired up with 1.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

If I que as a tank and see 2 machinists or 2 bards I usually leave the group and try again in 30 minutes depending on how fast they kill the first encounter.

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I have not come across one person in DF dungeons that can do higher DPS than myself on MCH. The point is, it is the player that delivers more than the job. I would take two good BRD/MCH in a dungeon over two cruddy BLM/SMN any day.

Also, BRD and MCH do really good damage, especially in raiding scenes (assuming you are not having to use MP song/turret too much). In a equal skill level/gear with other players, we are only slightly behind. I keep up with the other people in my party just fine.

That being said, it is a large understatement that a lot of MCH do not know how to be efficient at the job.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

As much as it sucks to have 2 DPS with a lower potential, this is a weird and rude behaviour. You're wasting a lot of time for them to potentially save yourself a few minutes (not really because you get the penalty).

I want to reiterate that the potential is less, but not necessarily their DPS. A bard can do ~90% of a black mage for example. However, I've yet to see anyone in DF pull better than 86% of my damage done with my ilvl 212 summoner (yes I realize aoe on summoner is insane, but most summoners I actually see pull 73% or less and the one who hit 86% was a monk.) Long story short, the player skill is more important than the job played.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

I have not come across one person in DF dungeons that can do higher DPS than myself on MCH. The point is, it is the player that delivers more than the job. I would take two good BRD/MCH in a dungeon over two cruddy BLM/SMN any day.

Also, BRD and MCH do really good damage, especially in raiding scenes (assuming you are not having to use MP song/turret too much). In a equal skill level/gear with other players, we are only slightly behind. I keep up with the other people in my party just fine.

That being said, it is a large understatement that a lot of MCH do not know how to be efficient at the job.

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I actually didn't do that before the DPS nerf, but after the nerf just slugging through a dungeon isn't really fun or exciting. Its not nice but, but honestly people shouldn't be playing too much 75% DPS classes unless they actually buff their utility to compensate for having so much less damage.

I am speaking of typical people though, there are some seriously gifted people.

I do hope they look at classes like Bard or Dirge or Troubador and give them some real utility one day.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

I do hope they look at classes like Bard or Dirge or Troubador and give them some real utility one day.

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We do, its called Hypercharge and Foe's Requiem.

I agree, all else equal, I'd rather have 2 summoners in expert roulette than anything else. Either SMN could be swapped for BLM/MNK and it wouldn't be too bad either. That said, all else is not equal and player skill makes a huge difference. It's really sad that overall DPS for the new expert dungeons is usually - Top DPS: 900, 2nd DPS: Me(SCH) 850, 3rd DPS 700. Meanwhile, I queue with my monk friend and go as my SMN and I do 1500 and she does 1300 overall. The top DPS i've seen outside of us two was 1100 :(

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Originally Posted by Velhart

We do, its called Hypercharge and Foe's Requiem.

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Eh. I still want to see something for MCH / BRD like:

Group Buffs: (does not stack.)
12% Critical Chance
12% Attack Speed Increase and TP Reduction
X% Heal on Damage (especially for MCH)
X% Increase to autoattack's damage and speed.
Temporary 50% Attack Speed/TP Reduction/MP Reduction increase raidwide for 10-12 seconds, very long cooldown (5-10 minutes.)

Single Target Buffs: (does not stack.)
Increase threat to target raises damage potential.
Decrease threat to target and increase their damage potential.

Stuff like this, fun attacks and spells that make your utility significant.

That utility is ok and all, but it doesn't really feel like "utility" to me, not worth an entire title over.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

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That is broken, you would have to sacrifice more from us to add that in. Plus, there is a job that does something similar to that already, its called Astrologian.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

That is broken, you would have to sacrifice more from us to add that in. Plus, there is a job that does something similar to that already, its called Astrologian.

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And that is why I don't like Bards/MCH. They just don't offer good utility for what they sacrifice. Honestly though; not broken. Its called Fun and actual utility; not the crap you guys have.

They are pretty much just DPS with a few tricks. Not really what I would consider a utility class.

I think its more my problem though because I actually grouped with real utility classes in older games. Games now are kind of joke tier in utility, its pretty much dead.

Maybe its because its not really a mechanic class? o-o its more a gunner to me!
I mean:
Why calling it a mechanic when they can only "summon" 2 kinds of machines and have just 2 summoned-machine-only- skills? o-o;;

When I heard that class at 1st time I thought we can build machines and use them lol