So, I see alot of ''negative'' threads on this forum.

I'm having a blast with the game and consider it very fun and entertaining.
However, this is to be expected of the game, so I'm not going to create countless topics gushing over how expectedly well received the game is.

Basically, keep up the good work, devs.

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Originally Posted by Seraphix2407

About content, if you did read the post, it's not all about me as a player who wants more content, it's also about those who don't even raid, we need something for those people too. Like you mentioned, those who doesn't even raid, still do expert dungeons because they enjoy it, but sorry to say, I HIGHLY DOUBT, they enjoy doing same expert dungeons for 3-4 months.

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I don't raid and I like expert dungeons. :P Yes, even after 4 months (they are 3 months old at the moment). And there's plenty to do outside of savage, which is what I assume you meant by "people who don't raid". Alex normal (I recently did 40 runs to practice my healing and might go again to farm alt gear), Void Ark at least once every week, Diadem for pegasos (I already got mine but plenty of people haven't), Anima is still unfinished for many, bird dailies (and old dailies for newer players), maps, trials for those who like it and of course hunts for wyvern mount. Now that we can unsynch there's also Coil and old primals for glamour.

I find that 2 dungeons per patch has been more than sufficient so far, considering non-raiders/casuals got easy 8-man raids and Diadem to replace the 2 "missing" dungeons. Next patch we are getting more Alex normal and dps practice modes (one for each trial and savage floor). This is more types of pve than ARR had. I'm curious what MMO brings out 4-5 dungeons and 3-4 primal equivalents every 3 months as well as new types of pve content, if that's what you were expecting.

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Originally Posted by Seraphix2407

Do you enjoy doing the same expert dungeons everyday for 3-4 months. Just a legit qustion.

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I'll be completely honest - yes, I did. But I do realize that is an extremely rare point of view ;)
What you have to keep in mind though, is that players don't "just" run expert dungeons all day. Most still have many classes to level (which means they go through a plethora of different dungeons every week), they might help out newbies in their FC with HM fights, Coil, etc.; they run old and new EX modes for ponies, glamour weapons and the like, go FATE farming for crystals, dabble a bit into PvP, do some questing (be it beastmen or for leveling purposes), and if they belong to a static, do their fixed AS/Thordan runs a few times a week. And that's not even starting on the people who also enjoy crafting and gathering :)
And all of that goes to a new level when friends are added to the mix, because even a dungeon you ran many times and grew bored of is seen in a different light when someone suddenly points out something you never noticed before or something becomes a stupid running joke or whatever it is that happens.

I'm very torn on the idea of getting rewards for helping others. We already see the newcomer bonus exploited with people going into content with someone who is new to it to get the tomes, but then kick him so they don't have to deal with someone actually failing. Of course, it could be implemented in a way to not be exploitable, but still...that's kind of like helping homeless people and expecting tax cuts in return or something like that. I think getting rewarded for helping defeats the whole purpose, because it means you'll do it for the reward, not because you actually care. But it's not like I'm actually against that. I just see a certain risk with that.

To answer your edit: I think the cries for more midcore content have even reached SE :)
Thordan wasn't too bad on that front (most people really did enjoy the fight!) and it seems Midas is going to be more on the level of Final Coil, too, which seemed to be a good balance between "something to put actual effort into" and "not hard to clear if you work well together and know how to follow mechanics and how to play your class".

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Originally Posted by Reinha

I don't raid and I like expert dungeons. :P

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Now this is a reply I like to see, rather than ''you are butthurt''. So yes I somewhat ''expected'' it. Considering its paid sub game, plus cashop. No I know there is a few game that doesn't deliver that, but the amount of new dungeons we get, which in my honest opinion, is just for tomestone capping. Maybe some vanity and well as you stated, you having fun, which due to all respect, is your opinion. I did have my fun at some point too, don't get me wrong! But it's tiresome doing the same thing all over again for months and months. Variation is wanted (my opinion again). Like 3 bosses, in between adds in each dungeon, why not make it somewhat different? Like some one stated earlier, the diade, is just a large zone with hunts pretty much, which I totally agree with. They did try to change something or add things like LoV, but it was a huge flop. I'm glad to see you enjoy diadem, well do it for other peoples pegasus. But I will ask you, the amount of time you spend to get eso caps every week, which is 3510 eso for full left side, then you need 1875 for full right side, not including the weapon. 5385 eso! And you have 450 eso per week, so 11-12 weeks if my calcuations are right. More if you want to include weapon. So that's almost as long you need before a new patch is due, then you have catch up which is letting you upgrade gear and has weekly drop again, so 10 weeks for full upgrade, which is almost much as doing weekly cap for both full right and left side for eso gear, means another patch is very close to happening again. Do you consider this as reward? I mean farming takes more than the actuall use of it? Or you just ignore the fact you get better gear but don't really care about it, since you do the dungeons for fun? Which leaves me to next question, would you do anything in this game and not get any reward for it? Like you could easily do a dungeon or primals without any reward, lets say the weekly cap of tomestones?

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Originally Posted by Atoli

I'm very torn on the idea of getting rewards for helping others. We already see the newcomer bonus exploited with people going into content with someone who is new to it to get the tomes, but then kick him so they don't have to deal with someone actually failing. Of course, it could be implemented in a way to not be exploitable, but still...that's kind of like helping homeless people and expecting tax cuts in return or something like that. I think getting rewarded for helping defeats the whole purpose, because it means you'll do it for the reward, not because you actually care. But it's not like I'm actually against that. I just see a certain risk with that.

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Yea, I'm not gonna lie, I did a lot of bonuses for the relic, but I also let people engage the fights if they really wanted to, hell we even did some of the fights synced and made it even more fun for the player who had the bonus and really wanted to do it the old fashion way! You are somewhat right about people would just do it for the reward and not for caring, but I also think it's ''somewhat needed'' because you see alot of people don't have any ''reason'' to do the content anymore as they recived the stuff. For example my fc/linkshell had cleared thordan at the very beginning almost, did it with even 7 warriors for more fun! But once some one in the linkshell, a huge social one, many wanted to farm the weapons. I woulnd't mind helping them, but at some point it would been too much for me and the others. Hell it was even hard to help people getting peoples clear, because they knew the fight but couldn't find the 6 other people. We managed to pull off, but few weeks ago, like maybe at the beginning of january it was extremely hard to do so, because most people vanished from the game. Without those players, many will struggle as well.

Whenever I see threads like this I always think back 10 years to when people said FF11 was stagnant and dying and that game is still going!

If the game has become boring for you then take a break, sure you might not come back but that's just how life works, people move on. I took a long break after playing since 2.0 and I'm loving every minute of my return, I have a lot of catching up to do so I'm always busy in game.

Ultimately if you're bored or frustrated with the game the onus is on you to do something about it, try other things in life such as different games or a new hobby because complaining on the forums will do NOTHING to solve the problem for you. The game developers are not going to change the whole game philosophy because a tiny minority of players complain on the forums. They will react when players leave in large numbers and that's simply not happening.

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Originally Posted by Artemiz

Ultimately if you're bored or frustrated with the game the onus is on you to do something about it, try other things in life such as different games or a new hobby because complaining on the forums will do NOTHING to solve the problem for you. The game developers are not going to change the whole game philosophy because a tiny minority of players complain on the forums. They will react when players leave in large numbers and that's simply not happening.

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Yes that's true, they wont change the game because of me or anyone else on the forum. But the whole reason why I made this thread was to talk about what most of the ''crying babies'' threads are about. As you said, not alot of people are leaving now. But I will say it and you can disagree if you want, but many I know have left, that includes people who been playing since almost since launch or hell even the beta. People who raided and those who was ''casual'' aka not raiding people have left the game. Currently the people, I'm not saying all is there to chat only. Sorry I can't simply defend that it's just okay to sub a game to chat, the truth is some people has a hard time leaving a game, beause they also spent so much time into it they feel its all going to be a waste if they leave now. I might be wrong on this part, but that's how i feel. 10 min ago, I talked to a guy who said the game has shitload of content to do like 4 weeks ago and saying everything runs and shines, now he said to me he's been playing something else because most people arent on and there is nothing to do. But yes I do agree with what you said. I did unsub but I also been posting on this forum recently, a lot too. I'm not afraid to delete my character if 3.2 isn't going to change much of the game and we all know it won't. Maybe I wont even return for 3.2, like you said, life moves on and that's how it works :).

I"ll give my two cents here. If I would have to rate HW or more importantly 3.x it would be 3 out of 5, not horrible but not great. I"ll back it up with some key points about how the game really didn't expand past what 2.x offered.

*added 5 new actions which fixed some issue people had with 2.x but also lead to what many called skill bloating. I will give bonus points for changing the style on how some jobs play
*added 3 new jobs which is good but annoyed how the borrowed some niche play style from other jobs.
*added massive new lands but failed to actually fill them with content post level cap.
*added Ishgard, awesome then added Idlyshire for the end game hangout........ Why copy Mor Dhona formula again?

I still like FFXIV but disappointed that the devs really aren't expanding upon what they built in 2.x. At the end of the day it's still the same formula many got tried with in 2.x. Dungeons, 8/24 raid, primal, repeat. True, patches add something else with each patch but is that something enough to keep players happy during the patch cycle? I just wish they would have tried to change the mold a little and expand options for end game.

I will add the first thing SE needs is the ability to make 24-man alliances outside of Duty Finder. That would open so many doors for future content.

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Originally Posted by Seraphix2407

But I will ask you, the amount of time you spend to get eso caps every week, which is 3510 eso for full left side, then you need 1875 for full right side, not including the weapon. 5385 eso! And you have 450 eso per week, so 11-12 weeks if my calcuations are right. More if you want to include weapon. So that's almost as long you need before a new patch is due, then you have catch up which is letting you upgrade gear and has weekly drop again, so 10 weeks for full upgrade, which is almost much as doing weekly cap for both full right and left side for eso gear, means another patch is very close to happening again. Do you consider this as reward? I mean farming takes more than the actuall use of it? Or you just ignore the fact you get better gear but don't really care about it, since you do the dungeons for fun? Which leaves me to next question, would you do anything in this game and not get any reward for it? Like you could easily do a dungeon or primals without any reward, lets say the weekly cap of tomestones?

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What you are describing here is called "the treadmill". It never ends. In order for there to be any real "use" for gear there would have to be content that requires good gear and is either repeated for vanity reasons (glamour, mounts, minions, titles), repeated for randomness (pvp), repeated for fun or not beaten at all due to difficulty (pointless, maybe fun to some). Doing content for the gear is just taking another step on the treadmill. Honestly I got tired of the treadmill a long time ago and stepped out. Now I'm choosing to use my gear to obtain vanity and to experience content for fun. The eso capping? That's for glamour, dude. :D Full SMN and AST glamours, and MNK in progress. After that probably PLD or DRK. I haven't bought any right side gear with eso.

As for your second question, yes. I recently did the Crystal Tower series in good company and it was superb. Really recommend it to everyone. I also help my bf with maps without always joining his party for loot. And I level jobs to 60 without any intention to play them at cap, because the quests are fun.

In my opinion, this game returns enjoyment proportionally to how much effort a person is willing to invest in it. And by effort I don't just mean time but also attitude and social investment. I think the people who have nothing to do are quite often not looking very hard and the people who get tired of the same content are usually not involved in very many aspects of the game.

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Originally Posted by Seraphix2407

Do you enjoy doing the same expert dungeons everyday for 3-4 months.

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Just to chime in—yes, I do enjoy them. But I don't do them if I don't feel like doing them on a particular day. You don't need to do them every day to cap, especially if you also do other Roulettes or other content, like Alexander or Thordan EX. I do wish we were still getting 3 dungeons per patch, but in theory I like the idea of getting more varied types of content. Diadem was unfortunately marred by a number of design oversights—but that doesn't mean future new content we get will be, so I'm open to possibilities in the future.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

I just wish they would have tried to change the mold a little and expand options for end game.

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They did. That's part of what Diadem was about. It just suffers from a lot of design flaws right now.

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Originally Posted by Alahra

They did. That's part of what Diadem was about. It just suffers from a lot of design flaws right now.

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That is what I refer to as the "something" much like 3.2 is going to expand on pvp. And as I said, was it enough to keep people happy for the 105 days between patch cycles? Sadly I would say no. For content like that, you need key changes and updates quickly or the content falls to the way side.