Paladin Suggestion

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Originally Posted by Arannon

And the restrictive MP cost is enough of a limitation don't you think?
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As for Warriors...they don't really need all that DPS to tank either...but they've still got it...our Utility should be strong, and like you said, less clunky.

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The "prohibitive" MP is there to prevent you from main healing a fight. At 1200 potency you're healing a bit more than Cure II can. For the purpose it serves (emergency heals), costing 40% of you MP bar is "acceptable". You also have ways to recover MP via Riot Blade and Sheltron. I think PLD can easily fit in 5 to 6 Clemencies in a minute.

WAR's DPS is vital to its kit. The original design of WAR is a drain-tank. While it was shifted to a mitigation tank, it still has gaps to fill through draining. Those gaps are: Less effective healing received. Slightly weaker CDs than PLD's.

I'm not saying WAR is weaker than PLD. The entire toolkit of WAR is strong. It's actually stronger than PLD's even in terms of mitigation. A warrior turtling hard WILL out-mitigate a PLD simply because of ridiculous uptime on some of their abilities. But turtling on WAR hurts its DPS massively since it involves certain GCD manipulation. But skill-to-skill comparison, WAR's abilities are slightly weaker than PLD. WAR has to couple abilities together to increase their effectiveness.

In short, WAR "needs" all that DPS. It IS part of their mitigation as tanks.

Stoneskin II was needed since WHM have graniteskin which, btw is no longer a thing in HW. So casting Stoneskin II now is really not mandatory anymore. I have been in some duty roulette parties where the healer doesn't even bother casting stoneskin.

As for PLD tweaks, i agree that their enmity generation be increased... esp Flash since lol no damage. At least give it a huge enmity generation to compensate. Clemency cast time is very debatable for me though i welcome a cast time reduction on it. Please remove the trigger req for Divine Veil. As for TP issues, i might suggest Sheltron to restore TP over time while the buff is up and is removed upon blocking. This will make it useful even as OT.

Edit. I know it will be a bit OP but what if Clemency had a chance(like 15%) where the targeted player will get a galvanize effect equivalent to 20% of the amount healed?

Just something I would consider for Royal Authority: 20% the next Clemency requires no casting time (and maybe reduced mp cost).

I also remembered reading something somewhere, a suggestion for Shield Swipe that will trigger combo effects, like Swipe to gore/royal/halone. I also like that one

Developed a crackpot today, something like a chaining Cooldown combinations that would provide an added bonus, I'd enjoy that.

~> Awareness > Sheltron = Added effect to Awarenss
~> Tempered Will > Sheltron = Added effect to TW
Maybe some chains more elaborate
~> Tempered Will > Awareness > Sheltron = Even better Added Effect
etc etc

Trouble deciding what combinations or bonus effects would be appropriate (added effects should synergy with the CDs used, but contrary don't want to beat a dead horse). But this could be interesting. Add some complexity and consideration for CD rotations, especially if some of the possible bonus effects were the good stuffs like preventing cast interruption, spell/skill speed, TP return, refreshing a buff duration, aggro, or adding a DoT/Debuff/AoE to XYZ ability.

Shield swipe, off GCD

Bulwark, add thorns effect

Flash, trait that applies STR down(ir RoH) rather than lolblind.

RA apply STR down

Flash trait, apply Slow

Make bosses not immune to blind

Up enmity multiplier

Any mix of or all of the above

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

Shield swipe, off GCD

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It'd be better if it remained on GCD but had a higher potency so it is not a DPS loss. It would serve as a TP management tool. Removing it to oGCD would be nice if the PLD gets a fix to TP somewhere else.

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Bulwark, add thorns effect

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Sheltron too! Maybe reduce Bulwark's CD to 2 minutes?

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Flash, trait that applies STR down(ir RoH) rather than lolblind.

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Umm, I think that'd be OP lol. Unless Unleash applied Delirium and Steel Cyclone applied Path. But why not? :o

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RA apply STR down

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None of the classes applies a debuff on their strongest combo. Dunno, I'm indifferent about this one.

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Flash trait, apply Slow

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Slow instead of blind? Would be cool but I guess redundant with Shadow Flare? Dunno.

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Make bosses not immune to blind

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Tank Busters don't miss, making them miss would make the game too RNG dependant. Auto attack is fluff and them missing is no huge deal. But even if that happens, bosses would end up getting immune thanks to SMN/SCH's Ruin II. lol

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Up enmity multiplier

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Yes please. This would fix all of PLD's DPS issues too.

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Any mix of or all of the above

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I would add Clemency to 2.5 seconds cast.

Divine Veil not requiring a trigger heal or reduced CD to 120s... or both? why not?

Cover should cover magical damage too.

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Originally Posted by Phoenicia

It'd be better if it remained on GCD but had a higher potency so it is not a DPS loss. It would serve as a TP management tool. Removing it to oGCD would be nice if the PLD gets a fix to TP somewhere else.

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I think I'd prefer this to be oGCD. My suggestion would be to have this as a counterpart to reprisal. Make it oGCD and instead of damage down add a refresh buff for the PLD for 20s to help with the TP management, but a recast of 30s.

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Originally Posted by Phoenicia

Sheltron too! Maybe reduce Bulwark's CD to 2 minutes?

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Could be interesting. Don't really have any strong feelings about thorns either way. Reduced Bulwark CD would only be necessary (IMO) if it also enabled magic damage blocks.

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Originally Posted by Phoenicia

Umm, I think that'd be OP lol. Unless Unleash applied Delirium and Steel Cyclone applied Path. But why not? :o

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Yeah, would be OP.

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Originally Posted by Phoenicia

None of the classes applies a debuff on their strongest combo. Dunno, I'm indifferent about this one.

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Delirium is the DRKs strongest (unbuffed) combo. I'd agree though, RA is fine the way it is, except the enmity multiplier.

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Originally Posted by Phoenicia

Slow instead of blind? Would be cool but I guess redundant with Shadow Flare? Dunno.

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If it were to stack with SF it would be interesting, but non-plussed about this one really. Would be interesting if it would perhaps buff circle of scorn damage for a short period.

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Originally Posted by Phoenicia

Tank Busters don't miss, making them miss would make the game too RNG dependant. Auto attack is fluff and them missing is no huge deal. But even if that happens, bosses would end up getting immune thanks to SMN/SCH's Ruin II. lol

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Non-plussed with blinding bosses, but agreed that making tank buster resistance subject to RNG is a horrible idea.

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Originally Posted by Phoenicia

Yes please. This would fix all of PLD's DPS issues too.

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Agree 100%. At least bring us in line with the WAR and DRK enmity multipliers.

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Originally Posted by Phoenicia

I would add Clemency to 2.5 seconds cast.

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Would be nice. It would also be good if rather than healing the PLD it gave them a shield of equal value, but couldn't crit. That would mean a much lower chance to waste the cast due to overhealing.

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Originally Posted by Phoenicia

Divine Veil not requiring a trigger heal or reduced CD to 120s... or both? why not?

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Both please, but would rather the not requiring a heal (and not being knocked off by receiving a heal).

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Originally Posted by Phoenicia

Cover should cover magical damage too.

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Cover should be a group wide buff - players behind the PLD get 50% redirected damage from all sources for 10s or something like that. It would still need some coordination (so as not to nuke the paladin with redirected damage and to know when to move) but would make it more user friendly.

Some additional changes:

Shelltron - would be good if this also blocked magic damage as it would give the PLD the short cooldown defensive that WAR/DRK have for magic (IB/DM respectively). Increase the CD to 45s to compensate for the buff.

Goring Blade - as both DRK and WAR can apply two debuffs, it would be good to add a second for PLD (imo). I'd suggest that it should be a party offensive buff though, rather than a damage down. I would suggest that goring blade apply an additional 15s vulnerability debuff to increase damage taken from physical attacks by 5%. Keeping the debuff up 100% of the time would be a dps loss for the PLD due to clipping goring blade but a boost for physical dps, but the extra burst windows would make up for the generally lower dps of PLD. Perhaps to prevent this being OP add a 45s resistance to it once it wears off (so the buff would be up every third goring blade).

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Originally Posted by Phoenicia

I think PLD animations look cool. Specially Rage of Halone, Royal Authority (this one is my favorite) and Sheltron looks bad-ass. Shield Bash has a lot of "oomf" into it so it looks satisfying. Shield Swipe is kinda ridiculous but this is a game with talking dragons and flying cats and whales, I wouldn't argue efficiency from a martial arts PoV. lol

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One animation that bothers me as PLD is Shield Lob. Ever wondered how we actually got our shield back after tossing it? Animation certainly doesn't show it boomerang back or something. Not only it is impractical and dangerous to execute in real life perspective, it looks even more ridiculous on character model that you see your shield flying out, but at the same time it is still attached to your left arm... But seriously, you guys ever wondered how we retrieved our shield? So far, it goes:

1. Throw shield
2. Target goes "Ow!"
3. ???
4. Um... can I have my shield back? xD

Shield swipe fix (oGCD, cut it's potency back, Small tp restore effect added to it)
Lower PLD's new heal spell down to 2.5 seconds.
Shield block during casts.
Add a Spell speed boost to Royal authority for a single spell or a small duration that effects all it's spells.
Get rid of conditional heal for DV proct and just let it prevent 10% damage for the raid.

End result: Self-sufficient tank that has better "defense" through support spells that can be used on their allies in a timely manner. Because popping up a fast stone skin would be pretty damn awesome when you see a cast bar with a tank buster and your name on it.

Needs to be done sometime in the 3.x series, as all current abilities PLD has should have been done back in 2.x.