Paladin Suggestion

[ThunderGodThor]

A heated debate is still on-going it seems as to whether the paladin needs a buff. I haven't experienced enough of the 3.0 endgame to really add to the debate as I've only just reached ilvl170. I do, however have one suggestion that would really improve the paladin's battle style (is that a term?), that wouldn't mess up the current balance (or lack of balance).

My suggestion is to add more shield skills for the paladin, or change the animations of some of the paladins skills to incorporate the shield a little more. One example could be that when using sheltron, the paladin could hold the shield directly in front of him until the effect ends.

Just simple things like that would really improve the visuals on the paladin in my opinion. What are your thoughts?

[Phoenicia]

Well, the way SE is operating with this game is that they have a set of 18 class actions, 13 class traits, and 10 job actions. DRK, MCH and AST being an exception where they have 28 job actions and 13 job traits but that's because they have no base class. Point is, SE wouldn't just add actions.

Changing animations? I'm indifferent. I think PLD animations look cool. Specially Rage of Halone, Royal Authority (this one is my favorite) and Sheltron looks bad-ass. Shield Bash has a lot of "oomf" into it so it looks satisfying. Shield Swipe is kinda ridiculous but this is a game with talking dragons and flying cats and whales, I wouldn't argue efficiency from a martial arts PoV. lol

I have posted else where what I think the PLD needs, but I'll list them here:

- Give PLD more enmity generation. It'll fix a lot of their issues (aggro and DPS wise).

- Remove the clunk tied to their enormous utility. Clemency doesn't have to be a 3s cast. Make it 2.5 to be inline with the other heals. Give the PLD a cast interruption prevention trait.

- Fix PLD's TP issues. Either via direct TP regain, Shield Swipe "buff" or the above point of removed clunk from utility encouraging Non-TP GCD usage. Why not all three?

That is what I have in mind that I think would fix all of PLD's issues.

[Arannon]

- Remove the clunk tied to their enormous utility. Clemency doesn't have to be a 3s cast. Make it 2.5 to be inline with the other heals. Give the PLD a cast interruption prevention trait.

I'd say a bit faster than 2.5s...primarily because skill speed doesn't lower it like how spell speed will lower things for the healers...

So either a bit faster than 2.5s, or make it so the ability is quickened from skill speed instead of spell speed.

This is also why I'm such a big fan of making Royal Authorities "Thing" be that it quickens spell casts. We're the only class currently that has to deal with both physical actions and non-instant spells.

[Phoenicia]

Snip.

Yeah, but as a melee and tank, casting shouldn't be your "thing". Even if you have "casts", you shouldn't be as good or fast as the actual casters. Still I see no reason for it to be a 3s cast. 2.5s is more reasonable. Getting a trait to prevent interruption should be more than enough too.

Also remember, this isn't supposed to be like Equilibrium. WAR "needs" self heals to function since it receives less effective healing (5% less from spells, 25% from abilities). WAR's Equilibrium is there to help them survive. Your Clemency is there to allow you to help healers alleviate some of the healing stress. It is more of an OT utility rather than MT surviving thing.

[Arannon]

Yeah, but as a melee and tank, casting shouldn't be your "thing". Even if you have "casts", you shouldn't be as good or fast as the actual casters. Still I see no reason for it to be a 3s cast. 2.5s is more reasonable. Getting a trait to prevent interruption should be more than enough too.

Also remember, this isn't supposed to be like Equilibrium. WAR "needs" self heals to function since it receives less effective healing (5% less from spells, 25% from abilities). WAR's Equilibrium is there to help them survive. Your Clemency is there to allow you to help healers alleviate some of the healing stress. It is more of an OT utility rather than MT surviving thing.

And the restrictive MP cost is enough of a limitation don't you think? I mean, we don't have a huge MP pool, and none our gear is going to make it any better, and making our pool larger by melding for it isn't really all that effective is it?

Theres also the fact that at best we're currently looking at "two" (One cross class) spells we can cast. So its not like we've got a huge array of them to begin with. Casting "ISNT" our thing, but not because of how fast we could cast...or how strong our spells are...its because of the lack of things we CAN cast.

As for Warriors...they don't really need all that DPS to tank either...but they've still got it...our Utility should be strong, and like you said, less clunky.

[Phoenicia]

And the restrictive MP cost is enough of a limitation don't you think?
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As for Warriors...they don't really need all that DPS to tank either...but they've still got it...our Utility should be strong, and like you said, less clunky.

The "prohibitive" MP is there to prevent you from main healing a fight. At 1200 potency you're healing a bit more than Cure II can. For the purpose it serves (emergency heals), costing 40% of you MP bar is "acceptable". You also have ways to recover MP via Riot Blade and Sheltron. I think PLD can easily fit in 5 to 6 Clemencies in a minute.

WAR's DPS is vital to its kit. The original design of WAR is a drain-tank. While it was shifted to a mitigation tank, it still has gaps to fill through draining. Those gaps are: Less effective healing received. Slightly weaker CDs than PLD's.

I'm not saying WAR is weaker than PLD. The entire toolkit of WAR is strong. It's actually stronger than PLD's even in terms of mitigation. A warrior turtling hard WILL out-mitigate a PLD simply because of ridiculous uptime on some of their abilities. But turtling on WAR hurts its DPS massively since it involves certain GCD manipulation. But skill-to-skill comparison, WAR's abilities are slightly weaker than PLD. WAR has to couple abilities together to increase their effectiveness.

In short, WAR "needs" all that DPS. It IS part of their mitigation as tanks.

[Heavensword]

I think PLD animations look cool. Specially Rage of Halone, Royal Authority (this one is my favorite) and Sheltron looks bad-ass. Shield Bash has a lot of "oomf" into it so it looks satisfying. Shield Swipe is kinda ridiculous but this is a game with talking dragons and flying cats and whales, I wouldn't argue efficiency from a martial arts PoV. lol

One animation that bothers me as PLD is Shield Lob. Ever wondered how we actually got our shield back after tossing it? Animation certainly doesn't show it boomerang back or something. Not only it is impractical and dangerous to execute in real life perspective, it looks even more ridiculous on character model that you see your shield flying out, but at the same time it is still attached to your left arm... But seriously, you guys ever wondered how we retrieved our shield? So far, it goes:

1. Throw shield
2. Target goes "Ow!"
3. ???
4. Um... can I have my shield back? xD

[Reynhart]

Well, the way SE is operating with this game is that they have a set of 18 class actions, 13 class traits, and 10 job actions.

Ninja also don't work that way. If you only count the real actions, they had 6 at level 50 against 5 for other jobs. And if you count all the different effects, they had 9.

Yeah, but as a melee and tank, casting shouldn't be your "thing".

Well, actually, it shoud. Or else we wouldn't be the only melee job tied to a caster class.

[Phoenicia]

Ninja also don't work that way. If you only count the real actions, they had 6 at level 50 against 5 for other jobs. And if you count all the different effects, they had 9.

NIN has 5 + 1 extra button (Ninjutsu) to activate the Ninjutsu. You had to get it with the Ten sign, otherwise those hand signs wouldn't trigger by themselves. That is why it got 1 more button. Yes, NIN and AST have additional "actions" but they're all tied to something else. They STILL follow the overall 18+13+10.

EDIT: Also ACN class and its jobs have a gazillion more abilities than the other classes via pet abilities. They are still considered to follow the 18+13+10 formula. Speaking of SMN, that formula is the main reason SMNs aren't getting more egis.

Well, actually, it shoud. Or else we wouldn't be the only melee job tied to a caster class.

You are still a melee tank with a pure melee class base, being tied to a caster class doesn't make casting "your thing". Even if it were, you shouldn't be as good as the pure casters.

[Lambdafish]

The one thing that I want to see from PLD is a single target attack that uses MP (enmity generation would be a bonus). I say this because my go to for when I run out of TP is flash spam until my TP is back to a sufficient place. obviously this is useless for an OT, and for an MT that has sufficient hate, extra damage would be much more beneficial.

Minor tweaks to clemency and other skills to make them more useful would be nice, but this is the big thing that I want

Point is, SE wouldn't just add actions.

Stoneskin II