TP is a problem, esp for DRK. When TP hits 0 DPS nose dives.
Goad is a great solution if you have a NIN, but a BRD/MCH isn't going to TP regen over a minute early for a tank. TP regen is also used as a bridge until the next invigorate, while DRK/PLD will continue to run out. Again not on all fights but when present it is a big problem.
Jumps/downtime favor a WAR. Anytime DPS is haulted and zerk is on CD WAR has a DPS advantage. Same can be said of FoF but on a much smaller level because of Fellcleave.
Tank DPS Comparison Video
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08-04-2015, 05:21 AMSirTaint
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08-04-2015, 05:26 AMPhoebusProbably 1/2 of the time i'm in SwO and maybe use Rage a couple of times during the fight on A1S.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZDamned
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08-04-2015, 05:33 AMBadRNGMaybe? Depending on their overpower use, I'd assume. It's not really the same comparison since we were talking about single target TP drain (as DRK has no aoe-tp skills).Quote:
Originally Posted by Tila
If you wanted to compare DRK/WAR aoe sustainability it's an odd situation, WAR definitely falls off a cliff fast but DRK will as well if they aren't actively getting hit constantly (like in stupid AS2 with all the stuns). Or another way to put it, WAR has better OT aoe potential but DRK has better MTing aoe potential. The only benefit WAR has there is that if it is highly beneficial for them to be actively spamming Overpower for some reason, then it's likely true for the other TP aoe users, so singing/turret is a bit more justified.
It's really funny you say this when the post literally above you is saying you can write it off all together.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenicia
SirTaint already addressed rest of your points, so not going to rehash. -
08-04-2015, 05:47 AMZDamnedWhich is still in line with what I said. Since I specifically said the ENTIRE FIGHT. So thanks for backing me up. =) I do the same with dropping Grit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoebus
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08-04-2015, 05:56 AMCooperal
I still don't get these. As in I don't get the point. It's just too simple to say "any DPS we can squeeze into our tank party-slots is good".
It just begs other questions. Can the tank keep the attention of all 3 or more enemies without even slightly breaking their optimal single target DPS (the answer to that would be no). Do they have abilities that scale their usefulness (whether it's damage or recovery) directly to the amount of enemies present? (DRK has at least 5 things which only continue to become useful when more enemies are in their space or hitting them).
Things like Salted Earth and Abyssal Drain can be insane. Just not on one opponent. Blood price can be more epic than any limit break. But especially not on a dummy that doesn't fight back. And I'm sure all 3 tanks must be that way in some respects. Not going to get a fair deal on a PLDs shield swipes with a test such as that. You just can't test their DPS that way, let alone the goal that takes priority above it. -
08-04-2015, 06:00 AMPhoebusI was more pointing out the lack of using Rage, but you are welcome for the back up :P.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZDamned
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08-04-2015, 06:34 AMZDamnedThe thing about that though, is it means your not optimally using that 930 DPS rotation that the training dummy allows, which is why I said what I said. ^^Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoebus
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08-04-2015, 09:35 AMPaikisEh, the usual narrative is that WAR is overpowered because it does this huge amount more DPS while also being the best at taking hits and never runs out of TP. This video shows that the huge DPS gap just isn't there.Quote:
Originally Posted by BadRNG
The arguments I see here on the forums all assume that the WAR is a god-like player who never miss-times an Inner Beast with every tankbuster, and still manages to be using Fell Cleave every other GCD while doing that. They also apparently are using fending-DPS for PLD while looking at slaying DPS for WAR, based on the number of threads I've seen begging for the PLD (still the easiest class to play in the game) to get more damage added and using top-raid WAR parses to try to somehow justify it.
What is also going on is that people who are playing WAR are generally gearing for more damage since the perceived role of the WAR is the damage tank. I see most WAR players using at least partial and usually full slaying gear. PLD is perceived as the more defensive tank, and I see a lot more PLDs who wear full fending gear. This alone would contribute to a large gap in DPS. The parse above though shows that actually all the tanks are within a few % of each other when using similar gear, and the ordering is about what we should expect, given that the PLD has the best defensive stats, followed by the DRK and then the WAR bringing up the rear.
Again, the difference is not huge when all the classes are well played.
EDIT: After watching the actual video, I'm going to say that actually the WAR's parse should be lower in an actual fight. You simply cannot use Butcher's Block combo two out of every three combos and expect to not rip hate off your counterpart. BB combo is the highest potency combo for WAR. Having to use the maim combos will lower your actual damage. You also ended the parse directly after a triple fell cleave, when you shoujld by rights have ended it BEFORE that point, giving a DPS of 976 for the WAR. -
08-04-2015, 09:45 AMTilaWould be kinda funny if it turns out warrior dps in practical usage is below the other two.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paikis
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08-04-2015, 09:55 AMPaikisI'm sure if we went through the video we'd be able to find other things that just aren't realistic in an actual fight (like being able to simply stand there and wail on something for 5 minutes without moving)... but ending the parse immediately after a Berserk is blatant number inflation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tila
EDIT: OK, they did the same thing for PLD, ending the fight after a Fight or Flight burst.