Tank DPS Comparison Video

[Gooner_iBluAirJGR]

This isn't my video but I saw it on the forums so I thought I'd share it again for anyone else who's been dying to see something like this for a very long time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhLf...ature=youtu.be

Edit:
TLDR: 5min dummy parse with slashing rebuff for all / party bonus
Warrior: 1000 dps
Dark Knight: 970 dps
Paladin: 940 dps

#Confirmed

[Paikis]

This doesnt support the narative. As such it will be ignored and/or "yes, but..."-ed to death.

[BadRNG]

This doesnt support the narative. As such it will be ignored and/or "yes, but..."-ed to death.

Isn't this the exact narrative? WAR has best dps, DRK is second, PLD is third. WAR can maintain endlessly and DRK/PLD go dry very fast.

Whats missing is that DRK runs out of TP at 2min18 seconds, PLD runs out of TP at 2min38 seconds, WAR doesn't run out.

It's not really missing if you watch the video, they had TP regen effects going constantly. For DRK they basically alternated full time rook TP and goad once MCH MP ran out, which is kind of funny to watch.

This would matter if all fights currently didn't have grace periods where TP can regen, or that groups will always have some kind of TP gain that will be used.

Its a detriment on paper, but not in practice.

Not every group has a NIN or AST, and if you are making BRD/MCH regen TP that early then you are lowering overall raid dps in order to obtain DRK/PLD's max. All fights definitely do not have a grace period every 2m. Hell I ran out of TP whilst tanking in AS2 near the end. Would of went out much faster with blood weapon constantly being used.

There are many fights where it is not an issue but still some where it is, not something you can write off all together.

[Tila]

Isn't this the exact narrative? WAR has best dps, DRK is second, PLD is third. WAR can maintain endlessly and DRK/PLD go dry very fast.


It's not really missing if you watch the video, they had TP regen effects going constantly. For DRK they basically alternated full time rook TP and goad once MCH MP ran out, which is kind of funny to watch.


Not every group has a NIN or AST, and if you are making BRD/MCH regen TP that early then you are lowering overall raid dps in order to obtain DRK/PLD's max. All fights definitely do not have a grace period every 2m. Hell I ran out of TP whilst tanking in AS2 near the end. Would of went out much faster with blood weapon constantly being used.

There are many fights where it is not an issue but still some where it is, not something you can write off all together.

Dont warrior tanks also have an issue with TP on AS2?

[ZDamned]

You CAN write it off all together, because there are no fights where these become an issue, and the developers are creating content around it.
Believe it or not, the developers tuned the 3 very closely. Even giving Warrior Fell cleave, it's not in the lead by something insane like 200 DPS.
Nearly all of the complains on this forum are unfounded, and just coming from a bunch of players who don't want to adjust themselves to the newer content. Instead they want the game to cater to them.

News Flash: Dark Knight is 30 DPS behind, and that's in line with all of this games balancing on a TRAINING dummy.
Step into a raid, and none of the sustained 4-6 minute parses matter at all because as a tank, you have to adhere to mechanics, and you also need to adhere to well played Damage Dealers who probably do more damage than you can, unlike Duty Finder where we tanks end up on top.
No, you will not be tanking Alex Savage in Sword Oath the entire fight, nor will you tank the fight without using Rage of Halone several times to establish enmity.

The only fight in the game that ever tested TP limits before now was Turn 8, and we have never seen anything like it since.

Do you feel your job doesn't do enough DPS? Then stop playing it. The numbers we pull are entirely by design for a reason. But a gap of 70 DPS between the 3 is nowhere near imbalanced by anyone's standard.

[Phoebus]

No, you will not be tanking Alex Savage in Sword Oath the entire fight, nor will you tank the fight without using Rage of Halone several times to establish enmity.

Probably 1/2 of the time i'm in SwO and maybe use Rage a couple of times during the fight on A1S.

[ZDamned]

Probably 1/2 of the time i'm in SwO and maybe use Rage a couple of times during the fight on A1S.

Which is still in line with what I said. Since I specifically said the ENTIRE FIGHT. So thanks for backing me up. =) I do the same with dropping Grit.

[Phoenicia]

...

No body is writing off the whole TP thing. But those that are making it a problem are exaggerating.

Whither you have PLD/WAR, DRK/WAR, PLD/DRK, the TP issue is present. Ask your NIN/AST/BRD/MCH to give you TP earlier. Only combo that has no worries over tank TP is WAR/WAR. And no body is running double jobs.

When NIN TP costs got nerfed in 2.45, most competitive raid groups gave Goad priority to PLD. NIN had the exact same TP time as MNK and DRG so they wanted the bards to sing for TP. It's a team game after all.

If your team doesn't want to adjust to its own setup, then they are stupid. Simple as that. Singing TP for your tanks is as much of a DPS increase to the tanks as it is for the DPS. DPS will start regaining TP at the 400 mark instead of right before they're starved and strugging with that TP tick is a DPS increase. BRD can time his songs so he doesn't lose DPS by singing during jumps, further boosting those grace periods' TP regen. Just work around what you have.

WAR never runs out of TP on a single target. People wouldn't cry if WAR wasn't given Equilibrium, which is what this is all about. People think WAR's TP is great because of Equilibrium. (Watch the 5 minute parse, WAR didn't use Equilibrium nor touch it). WAR has 0 TP GCDs and is pacified for 5 seconds every 1.5 minutes. That pacification is a DPS loss too! If WAR wasn't given Equilibrium, no body would've even noticed that WAR has no TP issues.

ALL jobs except WAR run out of TP, even the ones that have Invigorate. Melee run out on average at 3:30. BRD (And MCH I guess?) last a lot shorter. A BRD or MCH can start singing slightly earlier in shorter bursts so that everyone gets TP before they completely dry and starve. Again, just coordinate with your teammates.

[BadRNG]

Dont warrior tanks also have an issue with TP on AS2?

Maybe? Depending on their overpower use, I'd assume. It's not really the same comparison since we were talking about single target TP drain (as DRK has no aoe-tp skills).

If you wanted to compare DRK/WAR aoe sustainability it's an odd situation, WAR definitely falls off a cliff fast but DRK will as well if they aren't actively getting hit constantly (like in stupid AS2 with all the stuns). Or another way to put it, WAR has better OT aoe potential but DRK has better MTing aoe potential. The only benefit WAR has there is that if it is highly beneficial for them to be actively spamming Overpower for some reason, then it's likely true for the other TP aoe users, so singing/turret is a bit more justified.

No body is writing off the whole TP thing. But those that are making it a problem are exaggerating.

It's really funny you say this when the post literally above you is saying you can write it off all together.

SirTaint already addressed rest of your points, so not going to rehash.

[Paikis]

Isn't this the exact narrative? WAR has best dps, DRK is second, PLD is third. WAR can maintain endlessly and DRK/PLD go dry very fast.

Eh, the usual narrative is that WAR is overpowered because it does this huge amount more DPS while also being the best at taking hits and never runs out of TP. This video shows that the huge DPS gap just isn't there.

The arguments I see here on the forums all assume that the WAR is a god-like player who never miss-times an Inner Beast with every tankbuster, and still manages to be using Fell Cleave every other GCD while doing that. They also apparently are using fending-DPS for PLD while looking at slaying DPS for WAR, based on the number of threads I've seen begging for the PLD (still the easiest class to play in the game) to get more damage added and using top-raid WAR parses to try to somehow justify it.

What is also going on is that people who are playing WAR are generally gearing for more damage since the perceived role of the WAR is the damage tank. I see most WAR players using at least partial and usually full slaying gear. PLD is perceived as the more defensive tank, and I see a lot more PLDs who wear full fending gear. This alone would contribute to a large gap in DPS. The parse above though shows that actually all the tanks are within a few % of each other when using similar gear, and the ordering is about what we should expect, given that the PLD has the best defensive stats, followed by the DRK and then the WAR bringing up the rear.

Again, the difference is not huge when all the classes are well played.

EDIT: After watching the actual video, I'm going to say that actually the WAR's parse should be lower in an actual fight. You simply cannot use Butcher's Block combo two out of every three combos and expect to not rip hate off your counterpart. BB combo is the highest potency combo for WAR. Having to use the maim combos will lower your actual damage. You also ended the parse directly after a triple fell cleave, when you shoujld by rights have ended it BEFORE that point, giving a DPS of 976 for the WAR.