Midgardsormr's Sorrow [SPOILER]

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Originally Posted by Samcaesar

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Well you have to remember Midgar is still in a very weak state in 3.0. As mentioned back in 2.5, Midgar is still recovering so the amount of power he has is very minor which can prevent anyone from noticing his presence. The largest size he can take form in now is the mount form but that is only at the end of 3.0 when he has gain back a slight amount of his powers.

As for Ishgard's hatred of dragons born from a false belief.....

The habit won't stop as shown through Dark Knight Job quest and is even mentioned at the end of 3.0 it will take generations before this habit stops and peace can be obtained.

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Originally Posted by Samcaesar

I really hope Ishgard's habits of killing/attack any and all dragons doesn't immediately stop with the end of 3.0, or I'm calling out some shenanigans.

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i don't see either side easily just giving up fighting completely. would also be wierd (killing dragons in the new area's when are suppose to be at peace)

can the other great wyrms cancel out each others roars? at most i can see midgard being able to but i see him as a neutral party (as in he won't stop the fighting but he won't help it either he shows this a lot towards us too)

Keep in mind that to a, lesser degree, Hraesvalgr is allowing Nidhogg to do what he's been doing. Nidhogg even states his goal if Hraesvalgr gives him his eye.

The most the Hraesvalgr can do/did is remain neutral and ask his brood to not join in on the fight.

Also Hidhogg has rancor and we know what rancor does to people

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Originally Posted by Samcaesar

I mean, maybe mortals couldn't sense him too well, but I find it sooo odd that Hraesvelgr wasn't all "And uh.. Dad what the heck are you doing here". They're such aether attuned beings, you'd think they'd be notice to sense such a unique presence such as father of all dragons.

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remember midgar outlasts almost everything on eorzea. even at a fraction of his power he can effectively do what he wants and get away with it.

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I dunno, I think the story really poorly handles Nidhogg, like Hraesveglr basically could rein him in whenever.. And yet didn't.

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he wanted to make amends for not seeing this betrayal before it could happen. His heart is heavy with guilt for allowing the knights 12 and thordan to kill his sister and tear out Nidhogg's eyes.

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Nor does it explain why the heck Midgardsormr or Hraesvelgr couldn't just counter-act Nidhogg's song with their own version of it.

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they likely could, but they have no interest in doing so. most likely the song only affects members of their brood anyway (nidhogg's children can only hear nidhogg's song, and the like.)

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I really hope Ishgard's habits of killing/attack any and all dragons doesn't immediately stop with the end of 3.0, or I'm calling out some shenanigans.

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according to nidhogg, the war is still on.

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Couldn't Midgardsormr hear Nidhogg's song? Like he was the one who alerted us to that whole deal. And if it affects only members of their brood.. Well now that we've got Middy's respect and all that, I don't imagine him not being both willing nor able to sooth Nidhogg's rage.

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remember, Midgar sits higher on the totem pole and Hraesvelgr is Nidhogg's brother. i was referring to direct descendants of those dragons (dragons lower on the totem pole.)

And nothing is going to soothe nidhogg's rancor. it has run for so long, so deep, that only the death/draconification of every living ishgardian would sate him.

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Originally Posted by myahele

Keep in mind that to a, lesser degree, Hraesvalgr is allowing Nidhogg to do what he's been doing. Nidhogg even states his goal if Hraesvalgr gives him his eye.

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Your brother comes to you, bathed in blood and seriously wounded. He tells you that someone killed your sister and nearly killed him as well, then asks for your gun to go exact revenge.

How would you react? Beyond, "Let's get you to a hospital and call the police!" that is.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

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I mean, is he really? He manages to seal the blessing of Hydaelyn, and also split himself into 3 different physical forms (Minion, Boss, and Mount), just the boss form is incredibly weak due to the whole Silvertear incident.

Eh, false belief or not, it'll be awkward if suddenly they pull a 180 and go "Dragons and heretics aren't so bad!", otherwise the Archbishop's whole deal was meaningless.

I mean, it does, but I feel the story treats Ishgard way to lightly in a lot of the crimes it commits, the whole killing of heretics, attacking harmless dragons, the widespread poverty.. Like they're all noted, but I don't think it'd really addressed properly, like even Aymeric yelling at someone for killing some unarmed heretics or threatening his own men for them wanting to kill some heretics or fleeing dragons would be appreciated, but I don't think he's ever done that.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

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I dunno, the lack of a sudden reactionary burst trying to restore honor to the Ishgardian faith with their whole leader leaving or them constantly just listening to Aymeric with him going "Don't kill these guys" and all seemed odd and kinda makes me think a whole "We're good guys now!" Which is about as boring as the whole Ul'dah incident imho.

We don't exactly know if that's possible, but we do know Nidhogg was borrowing Hraesvelgr's power. Seeing as how Nidhogg does stuff with regards to controlling Estinien, why on earth can't Hraesvelgr do the same to the guy who's directly using his eye to keep him alive? I mean, plus by the end of the story you know what happens, and Middy now seems to respect us a whole lot more than he does, you'd think he'd go all "Alright I've got this now"

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Originally Posted by saber_alter

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You'd think masking your aetheric presence to that degree would be super hard though especially for a dragon, this is like a species that you can read into their consciousness via their eyes. I mean shoot, Ishgard could detect him still being alive through disturbances in the aether using stars, I'm sure his own children would be able to detect him too.

Eeh, it still ends up making a lot of players dislike him (I blame that a bit more on the players though >_>).

Couldn't Midgardsormr hear Nidhogg's song? Like he was the one who alerted us to that whole deal. And if it affects only members of their brood.. Well now that we've got Middy's respect and all that, I don't imagine him not being both willing nor able to sooth Nidhogg's rage.

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Originally Posted by Samcaesar

I'm also pretty curious how the heck Nidhogg or Hraesvelgr didn't notice Midgardsormr's presence, you'd think they'd be able to detect the specific aether of their dad.

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The same reason why Estinien just casually carries that damn eye in his pocket and then carelessly whips it out for the sake of showing it off or staring broodingly into it. Like, I get that it was sensed a few times. But the way that thing was glowing, you think it'd be like holding an open bag of catnip in your pocket. Every time he pulled it out I wonder how we didn't have swarms of dragon mobs following us or something.

I was sitting there for half the story like, "Damnit, Estinien. You can't just carry ominous glowing evil things in your pocket, it's gonna do something really evil one day."

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Originally Posted by myahele

Also Hidhogg has rancor and we know what rancor does to people

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Nidhogg will turn into a Tonberry? :p

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Originally Posted by Samcaesar

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Well the boss form was not his real physical form but a illusion created by his ability to manipulate Aether. Midgar is one of the most powerful being in the world of FF14 but in his weakened state he can only generate his smaller physical form being the minion and a lesser physical form being the mount.

Also, pulling a 180 isn't possible due to generations of false belief. Aymeric may be seeking to remove the hundred years of lies and restore the peace between Dravania and Ishgard along with reforming Ishgard's society but he knows full well it can't be done in a day as was mentioned in the ending of 3.0. At best we will most likely see small changes over the revealing of the truth in 3.X era but only small ones. It will be up to the next generation of Ishgardians and their children and children's children to finish what Aymeric started or destroy everything he worked for.

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Originally Posted by Samcaesar

words.

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The way I see it is it's not all of Ishgard's fault for the crimes and other bad things that were done since forever and a day ago. The secret of who cast the first stone was guarded very well and everyone grew up with false knowledge. No one was none the wiser until we showed up and did some snooping around. Ishgard, as a city during the war and as a society, have been the way they been for ages because of a select few and said select few got the punishment they deserved. What more could be done to not make the city look like it's getting off light?