Competative dps for BRD and MCH

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06-30-2015, 04:12 AM
Lewtskie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Athism

As a BRD main, my heart hurts. I'm at a cross roads, idk if i should level a new dps class or stick with brd. Knowing SE, it will take a while before they fix brd, and i would like to progress BISEX/ RAVEX.

I'm with ya, man. And I just haven't the heart right now to level other shit so I'm just stuck in limbo at 56 until I decide something.
06-30-2015, 04:13 AM
Panasync

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lewtskie

I'm with ya, man. And I just haven't the heart right now to level other shit so I'm just stuck in limbo at 56 until I decide something.

There is no way they'll leave the jobs in this state. How long, and how much of an improvement anyone could guess though.
06-30-2015, 04:18 AM
Leonus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panasync

What about Summoner and Black Mage? What is your excuse for their existence and DPS? Back in 2.0 we also almost exclusively used 2 PLD parties, the whole debuff to the LB was in response to job stacking. Not to mention fight design has changed to not just be a bunch of up close mob AoE's but RAIDWIDE mechanics that everyone deals with, not just melee. If people are stacking ranged because a fight is so punishing to melee, that is a fight design issue, not a job one.

Now i'm confused, so if they designed the fights to be less punishing to melee. People would complain. Now that everyone has to deal with mechanics, people complain. There is no pleasing this community as a whole. People will flock to ranged because it is generally the EASIER thing to do. People generally do what is easier that allows them to achieve the same results or better. That's what happened in 2.0 with brd.

Give everyone equal damage, give melee rdps AoE abilities and the ability to punch/peirce/slash a mob from the distance of casting a spell or firing an arrow or bullet (Wouldn't need gap closers at this point). Give all the Rdps the single target dps of a melee. All problems are solved. No one can complain, only way to please people (and then people would still complain).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panasync

Check any DPS content that was close to release (Turn 8 is an example) where raiding DPS is an absolute necessity, in an effort to push these DPS checks people would use multiple monks because of lack of gear (was only obtainable by doing the dungeon with weekly lockouts).

The groups i saw generally only stacked two monks. IF it makes you feel any better, stacking two monks takes a spot away from all other dps. Not just ranged, this includes drgs and nins.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panasync

Do a search for Turn X world first, count the monks, because they're typically stacking at least 2.

Exactly this. Usually people would bring BRDs to those progression parties, (the only class almost 100% garunteed a spot in ANY party during ARR) kinda hard to survive without songs for TP/MP during progression content. The brds also usually focused on the mechanics moreso to ALLOW the melee dps (the mnks really) to push. There was almost always 2 rdps in those parties, usually one spot was ALWAYS a bard, the other was blm/smn.

It's whatever at this point. Let Rdps match melee dps, then it will be the mdps' turn to complain and ask for buffs. Never ending cycle.
06-30-2015, 04:27 AM
Panasync

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leonus

...

Firstly you don't make things easier for one or the other, you balance the fight so it is a challenge ideally equally to both ranged and melee. Again fight issue, not job. Secondly you even state later on that bards need to support, dps, and handle mechanics so melee can push dps, you think that's easier than simply doing your rotation on a mob? God forbid you be forced to hit your combos while we have to maximize our dps because it's naturally lower, support abilities for you, and handle the mechanics, while you simply do a combo. Also in response to bard in 2.1 didn't all they do was change B4B (which was changed for all non-main DRG) and switch our RoD from damage- to acc-? Bard has never been top DPS even in 2.0, the potential has always been skewed how it is now.

Lastly, you keep ignoring my questions about Summoner and Black Mage, they're ranged, do top end damage, why aren't we stacking 3 blm and a brd? Black Mages are RESOURCELESS to boot.
06-30-2015, 04:35 AM
Warlyx

Quote:

Originally Posted by Athism

As a BRD main, my heart hurts. I'm at a cross roads, idk if i should level a new dps class or stick with brd. Knowing SE, it will take a while before they fix brd, and i would like to progress BISEX/ RAVEX.

BISEX? lmao well after shiva extreme....

BRD was awesome in 2.0 for lots of reasons , titan HM was a "pain" , and brd was the perfect job for it since it could move and dps , plus u needed silences in Turn 1-2 , being able to move and dps , silence and songs were "WOAH" plus brd was "ok" dps in 2.0 , and every patch from 2.0 onweard, brd was getting behind in the arms dps race , every dps got some love , i cant remember but im sure blm and smn received some fixes , and drg got some buffs (a bit late ) , war was buffed too (was in dire need of love to be fair).
06-30-2015, 05:00 AM
Neyka

I'm not familiar with what end game bard/mch dps is atm. How far behind the top dps are they currently? Are they at least above what an off-tank can do?
06-30-2015, 05:13 AM
Underdog2204

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neyka

I'm not familiar with what end game bard/mch dps is atm. How far behind the top dps are they currently? Are they at least above what an off-tank can do?

Off tank Warrior can match BRD and MCH and endgame.

To see how painful it is atm, there is a thread comparing some numbers for dps opening's -

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...e-various-jobs

Makes me very sad...

Sustained dps will be better in comparison, still WAR's can match that.
06-30-2015, 07:42 AM
Neyka

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog2204

Off tank Warrior can match BRD and MCH and endgame.

To see how painful it is atm, there is a thread comparing some numbers for dps opening's -

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...e-various-jobs

Makes me very sad...

Sustained dps will be better in comparison, still WAR's can match that.

Well, clearly bards and machinists should do more damage than an off tank. Ideally they should be just slightly behind ranged caster dps.

I wonder how long until we starting seeing the 6 warrior + 2 healer meta.
06-30-2015, 11:22 AM
Ooshima

Quote:

Originally Posted by Athism

As a BRD main, my heart hurts. I'm at a cross roads, idk if i should level a new dps class or stick with brd. Knowing SE, it will take a while before they fix brd, and i would like to progress BISEX/ RAVEX.

The real test for BRD/MCN is Alex Savage, not any of the extreme primals.

The fact is, yes BRD and MCN have issues but Bismark/Ravana EX isn't that difficult to get past with BRD/MCN either. People that I play with are getting past them even before obtaining an average IL of 170. If the group can't even get past this then the fundamental problem is elsewhere, no amount of tweaks to BRD/MCN will get the group past Alex Savage.

So yes you should still proceed with your EX clears now. To when do you want to wait? Go ahead and calculate how long did they took to fix Dragoons.
06-30-2015, 11:49 AM
FateAudax

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog2204

snip-

Very good post by the OP. However, there are always people who will feel threaten that buffing BRD/MCH will dethrone their high and mighty "complicated" dps throne. Hence, the opposition voice but note that usually these oppositions either does not main a Bard or did not even played a Bard before.

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