Give PLD In-Combat Raise? (3.0?)

They should just give healers the ability to cast Reraise from FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Steady

by that token, may as well give them a different set of cross classes.

Either they are a Paladin who can do White Magic... or they aren't. Right now they have 3 spells, only one of them useful. Why you wouldn't want them useful, is beyond me.

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the only conjurer spell any pld should be making use of is stone skin and again its not their jobs to keep people's hp and up it's their jobs to get the crap beaten out of them I agree that plds should have maybe some spells that offer support but only if they are a cd that uses mp.

But really id rather pld have more useful weapon skills.

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Originally Posted by Dererk

the only conjurer spell any pld should be making use of is stone skin and again its not their jobs to keep people's hp and up it's their jobs to get the crap beaten out of them I agree that plds should have maybe some spells that offer support but only if they are a cd that uses mp.

But really id rather pld have more useful weapon skills.

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There is a pretty good history of Paladins raising and curing in other Final fantasy games, particularly it's predecessor in FFXI.

You are right... the only CNJ spell PLd should be making use of IS stoneskin.. but if your seriously only using it on yourself, your missing the point.

You HAVE two other spells. They aren't particularly effective. The suggestion is to make the spell you have access too effective. And your argueing, "Nope... keep it gimp, so I can do less".

LOL... what.. 1-2-3 combo is all the challenge you want?

Examples of Paladins Raising and Curing and other White Magey stuff -

Final Fantasy 1 *(Knight) - Cure, Protect, Blink, Cura
Final Fantasy III (Knight/Dark Knight) - Cure, Cura
Final Fantasy IV (Cecil)- Cure, Protect, Cura, Shell, Esuna, Raise
Final Fantasty IX (Beatrix)- Cure, Cura, Life, Full Life, Esuna, Reflect, Holy
Final Fantasy XI (Paladin) - Cure 1-4, Protect/Shell, Raise, Holy

I could go on with the random other games... but Cure and Raise go with Paladin... the fact that they ain't being utilized well in the game is something that should be corrected.

Battle Raise without Swiftcast? No thanks. I'm not sacrificing 2 GCDs just to raise someone and probably miss some mechanics or lose hate to a raging DPS. Unless PLDs are given a buff that cuts cast time by half for the next cast or for the next 10 secs, I might consider.

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Originally Posted by rawker

Battle Raise without Swiftcast? No thanks. I'm not sacrificing 2 GCDs just to raise someone and probably miss some mechanics or lose hate to a raging DPS. Unless PLDs are given a buff that cuts cast time by half for the next cast or for the next 10 secs, I might consider.

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The usefulness of the spell/skill is for another debate, and up to player preference; access to the spell/skill is what should be considered at this time.

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Originally Posted by Steady

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Originally Posted by Dererk

No.


The PLD's job is to tank not keep people up that's the healers responsibility old used to have a spell in 1.0 that if used on another person they get bk the same hp just give them this back but make it a cool down. No way should a pld have to raise some body better things to use for the limited cross class skills.

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by that token, may as well give them a different set of cross classes.

Either they are a Paladin who can do White Magic... or they aren't. Right now they have 3 spells, only one of them useful. Why you wouldn't want them useful, is beyond me.

Hell I'm a War and I wish Featherfoot was more sexy :P. But it ain't. Gift horse << really.

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Couldn't have said it better myself.

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Originally Posted by rawker

Battle Raise without Swiftcast? No thanks. I'm not sacrificing 2 GCDs just to raise someone and probably miss some mechanics or lose hate to a raging DPS. Unless PLDs are given a buff that cuts cast time by half for the next cast or for the next 10 secs, I might consider.

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You have an ability that is near worthless. This would make it possible worth using in some occassions.

You act like if they fixed it to make it useful, that suddenly healers and summoners are gonna be like "Screw raising. let the Paladin do it".

That's not gonna happen. But say both healers die.... and Paladin decided to Hallowed Ground and cast Raise on one of the fallen healers as a clutch last ditch effort to save the raid.

Or maybe Tank swaps and Warrior holds him using self healing while PLD raises.

Utility ain't a bad thing.

dont get me wrong. i am not all against battle raise as a paladin but if given a choice, i'd rather see considerable increase in our cures first before i worry raising healers. as i also play smn, that's the only utility they have to net them a slot in a party. if plds are able to battle raise as we speak, that might even put smn in an even problematic scenario.

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Originally Posted by rawker

dont get me wrong. i am not all against battle raise as a paladin but if given a choice, i'd rather see considerable increase in our cures first before i worry raising healers. as i also play smn, that's the only utility they have to net them a slot in a party. if plds are able to battle raise as we speak, that might even put smn in an even problematic scenario.

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Summoner has it's own problems... but utility ain't one of them.

Yes, Paladins need a Cure buff too, or maybe access to bigger cure spells. Or maybe a formula that was VIT based or too VIT into account.

The big irritation I have with logic in threads about Pld vs. War vs. anything... is that people want to make Paladin more like Warrior in terms of damage out, instead of embracing that it should lean more towards it's Holy/White Mage roots. Paladin shouldn't do more physical damage... it SHOULD get more utility.

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Originally Posted by Steady

Summoner has it's own problems... but utility ain't one of them.

Yes, Paladins need a Cure buff too, or maybe access to bigger cure spells. Or maybe a formula that was VIT based or too VIT into account.

The big irritation I have with logic in threads about Pld vs. War vs. anything... is that people want to make Paladin more like Warrior in terms of damage out, instead of embracing that it should lean more towards it's Holy/White Mage roots. Paladin shouldn't do more physical damage... it SHOULD get more utility.

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I was about to post something similar. If they add more holy/healing magic to PLD, I'd like for them to increase our base Mind or like you mention, use a stat that we have abundance of for the calculation. Maybe even if it were at least a trait that changed the stat from MND to VIT for certain magic calculation like Cure. Give access to Cure II, etc. I want to feel more like a Paladin; they don't have to overdo it where PLD becomes a self-sustaining beast, but at least use Cures as a form of active mitigation and emnity generation.

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Originally Posted by HeavensSword

I was about to post something similar. If they add more holy/healing magic to PLD, I'd like for them to increase our base Mind or like you mention, use a stat that we have abundance of for the calculation. Maybe even if it were at least a trait that changed the stat from MND to VIT for certain magic calculation like Cure. Give access to Cure II, etc. I want to feel more like a Paladin; they don't have to overdo it where PLD becomes a self-sustaining beast, but at least use Cures as a form of active mitigation and emnity generation.

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Agreed.

I don't want to steer this conversation to a PLD vs WAR thread, but WAR's ability to self-heal through IR & Bzrk+BB+heal chain (or o/p when fighting multiples) is a much greater burst heal than the PLD can muster spamming cure on himself. I'm actually OK with this. I want PLD to be a turtle and mitigate rather than regain. I don't care for access to cure II, or enhanced cure I. However, the essence of mitigation is utility.

If a functional Esuna was given to PLD rather than a useless raise, I don't think this thread would have started. If a PLD could pull a paralyze status off a WHM or himself, I think that'd be awesome, and fall completely in line with PLD dmg mitigation vs WAR dmg soaking.

That said, Esuna isn't cross-class. PLD got raise. At least make it useful.