Question about FFXIV v1.x - Hamlets

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Originally Posted by Zaft

Yep. Like I said, it was a good idea, but badly implemented. I think it could be really fun if improved and added in the future. Like, if they did a 24-man raid hamlet, with DoW/M/L/H all having to do their jobs, and without a horrible "twiddle your thumbs for 20 more minutes while all the enemies die" system, it could be a lot more fun.

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Indeed. There's an idea rolling around in my head that would fit well with this, I'll have to put pen to paper, or rather finger to keyboard and write it up before long.

Besieged style would be more interesting in my opinion.
Need a penalty for loosing the battle, like in beseiged NPCs could be kidnapped so you no longer had a free warp between expansion area and the main continent, and if the enemy got the Astral Candesence the teleport system in the expansion area no longer worked till it was returned.

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Originally Posted by Kisshu

Besieged style would be more interesting in my opinion.
Need a penalty for loosing the battle, like in beseiged NPCs could be kidnapped so you no longer had a free warp between expansion area and the main continent, and if the enemy got the Astral Candesence the teleport system in the expansion area no longer worked till it was returned.

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A beseiged-style thing could be cool - but bear in mind, I think one of the core concepts here is getting an event where crafters and gatherers are active participants, whereas Besieged is basically pure combat. That, in my mind, is one of the things that made Hamlet unique - it had DoM/DoW working alongside DoL and DoH to save the day. It's a shame that it was implemented so poorly in 1.0, but 1.0 had a lot of cool ideas that wound up being implemented badly.

Although, here's an idea... You know how Beseiged had all kinds of powerful and unique temporary consumable items players could get? Perhaps that's how it could work: Besieged at its core, but to get these powerful items, DoW and DoM need to stock up at a vendor - a vendor who starts off with no goods. Crafters have to create the items, gathering materials from a stock - which ALSO starts off empty, and needs to be filled by gatherers.

Perhaps there are other things crafters and gatherers could do as well; Miners and Botanists could tear down / chop through enemy fortifications and siege weapons while being defended by DoW and DoM. Crafters could produce and/or repair allied siege weapons. That kind of thing. Fishers could, I dunno, stand on a balcony and fish foes' helmets off. XD

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I think one of the core concepts here is getting an event where crafters and gatherers are active participants, whereas Besieged is basically pure combat.

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"Besieged" in FFXI isn't limited to the battle (even if it is the main event) : the power of beastmen are determined by some factors influenced by players (beastmen killed, astral mirror destroyed, etc.) and it's easy to imagine what crafters could do in this system (repair buildings, repair weapons, make medicine, etc.)
And it's actually what happens in "Campaign", which is the better system.

Btw, we need a campaign-like system in FFXIV, because it's one of the few concepts that can actually legitimise the "MMO" appellation.

The old Lodestone article is still up for it for folks interested.
http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...mletdef01.html

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Originally Posted by Genz

Snip.

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Battle for zones, if the players hold the zones they function as normal.
If the enemy holds the zones they main push against the city (Besieged style event with hero cutscenes)
The zones looses a lot of functions, like no camp(alternate teleport point), no vendor&mender, no guild leve turnins, make it so players care to hold zones.
Gatherers supply wood and stone to build defences along with fish for food(keep up strength) while crafters supply armor(+npc def), weapons(+npc att) and potions(which players get a supply of in battle)
Fight along side NPC units(both basic and special heroes)

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

I'm trying to read into the replies to understand, but it sounds like the battles were essentially a passive experience with the NPCs doing the fighting and crafters/gatherers feeding them with supplies, a healer to keep people from dying and a tank to corral the enemies. Sound about right?

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Not quite. Well, you could go in with any class combination, so you could go in with all battle jobs, or all crafter jobs, for example, but generally folks did this:

1 tank
2 healers
2 dps
1 crafter
2 gatherer

Or something like that. People definitely brought dps to this and killed the monsters. If you let the monsters kill certain objectives, you were going to have a bad time. People only brought crafter/gatherers because the buffs they put up were pretty crazy. I think the content was more fun than it's given credit for. It's interesting that this, along with choco escorts and old school behests, were stripped entirely (as well as making levequests even close to viable past using them to level up).

Hamlet Defence guide for White Mages: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qOc...o&spfreload=10

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Originally Posted by Vaer

It was an instance that was pretty much like tower defense, it's been so long so I don't remember exactly what the setup was and completely how it worked.

There would be mobs that pour through the gate that would try to destroy the carts which you pretty much defended the entire time. You had a bunch of friendly NPCs that would attack them that were placed in between them and the various carts. The carts were basically defenseless. One strat would be to turtle with a bunch of WHMs to heal the NPCs so they didn't die (they do most of the DPS), a tank and I think a couple of gatherers and crafters. Gatherer jobs could pick up potions from objects around the field and turn them in to debuff the mobs. If you matched certain combinations of colors you would cause an effect to occur. IIRC, attack down was 3 reds. The crafters would make items to turn in to buff the NPCs I believe.

The tank would wait at the gate and grab the boss that would come through, and bring it to some empty location and kite it around for the rest of the time.

*snip*

Before you even entered, there was a little turn in mini-game period that the entire server could participate in where you would turn in crafted items to increase the defense level of the hamlet being attacked. If someone in your group was in the top 3 places, you would get a higher chance at getting a seal from the hamlet. Not sure if it affected drops (maybe crafter offhands/personal loot to the person who is on the board only). Once this period ended, you could enter and actually do the Hamlet Defense. The seals were used for the relic in 1.0.

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More info:

Hamlet Defense - Final Fantasy Wiki

Wow, content in the game that actually is INCLUSIVE of crafters and gatherers? That gave you points for stuff like using emotes and specific party/equipment setups?

THIS is how you innovate in MMOs. It's sad that everything else was so broken (and the fact that modern MMO players don't like 'different') that the game failed, because stuff like this is awesome.

Square-Enix: Bring back this sort of gameplay.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Hmm...based on the replies in this topic it sounds like it could be an excellent addition to the game - if implemented differently. In other words, not as a gate to the relic, but with a lot more direct action from DoW/DoM instead of the passive NPCs do the work aspect. .

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HAVE YOU NOT BEEN READING PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF THE WARDEN DO NOT SUGGEST THEY BRING THIS BACK Unless they take away the point system.

You need to understand that there was a lot more lag back then in 1.0 and yes the tank did get hit and it was for a lot of damage not to mention you can't be hitting it because everything else had to die first for the full credit if they get rid or the point system then sure could be fun but having it as a gate for stuff noo