Healers doing damage

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Originally Posted by Cerick

The amount of these threads are endless. It's a game, if you can play and have fun while still doing your job as a healer then do whatever you want. There will always be individuals out there that have their own opinions, they are sadly smothering potential with their misdirected opinions.

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And the problem with that crazy rhetoric that keeps popping up is that's appropriate to single-player games. Here, when you mess around at the detriment to others, those others are real people and not NPC's like in single player games.

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Originally Posted by UlricCraft

Healer DPS is absurdly strong.

BiS BLM = 600+ int
BiS WHM = 600+ mnd

Cleric stance swaps the mnd/int value, and adds +10% damage.

Holy = 200 +10%
Flare = 260

WHM can cast Holy 20 times before they run dry on MP, BLM can cast it 4 times before rotating again.
In any short group pull with more than 3 enemies, WHM DPS can arguably be the strongest DPS in the game.

(This only applies to trash pulls! Hehe)

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Holy is indeed very strong, and your point is good, but don't forget to factor in AF when comparing AoE potency :) Flare hits about twice as hard as Holy.

Aside from Spell Speed debates, this is THE hot button topic for many of us on this sub-forum. While there are a few people who maintain an extremely narrow view of the healer role, I think that the majority of skilled players maintain that assisting with DPS is something that good, active healers do whenever it doesn't interfere with their ability to heal.

In short: your FC doesn't know how to play WHM or is giving you wrong-context advice. Not using Holy in faceroll dungeons should be punishable by...well...something. Maybe the Mudra rabbit?

you can count holy as a heal you know. It stuns the mobs. and if the mob is stunned you know what its not doing? attacking the tank. 2-3 holy could save a big pull gone wrong in a dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

Only problem with this "it's ok if nobody dies" rhetoric that keeps popping up is that it's not always the healer's fault when people die.

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Why is that a problem? If it's not the healer's fault there is no problem.

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Here, when you mess around at the detriment to others, those others are real people and not NPC's like in single player games.

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This is why everyone is telling him to do whatever he wants as long as everyone is still healed.

If you're capable of DPSing in CS and healing people nicely, then continue. As a main healer, there is nothing I hate more than watching a healer stand around doing nothing in times when healing doesn't need to be done. These healers will never, ever get any commendations from me.

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Originally Posted by UlricCraft

Healer DPS is absurdly strong.

BiS BLM = 600+ int
BiS WHM = 600+ mnd

Cleric stance swaps the mnd/int value, and adds +10% damage.

Holy = 200 +10%
Flare = 260

WHM can cast Holy 20 times before they run dry on MP, BLM can cast it 4 times before rotating again.
In any short group pull with more than 3 enemies, WHM DPS can arguably be the strongest DPS in the game.

(This only applies to trash pulls! Hehe)

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This is not 100% accurate though... It is even pretty bad numbers you're giving..
Holy costs 532 MP, a decently geared healer has 5k++ MP. This amount will let you use Holy approx 12-13 times (using Shroud included), but not 20 times...
If you spam Holy, your potency / sec is 200 / 3 = 66,7.

Flare has a 260 potency, but Astral Fire 3 increases your fire damage by 80%, so the 'apparent potency' is actually 468. The rotation is (once the first rotation is done) Fire3, Fire2, Fire2, Flare.
As fire3 isnt AOE, the dmg is negligible, but we will count the time required to cast it in the rotation.
Flare potency : 468 (with AF3), Fire2 potency : 180 (with AF3).
A full rotation takes 3+3+3+4 sec to cast, for a total of 828 potency, which is 63,7 potency / sec.

So yeah, WHM are great in AOE, but it is not sustained... And the numbers are close...

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Originally Posted by Moqi

This is why everyone is telling him to do whatever he wants as long as everyone is still healed.

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And that's fine, but when you can be right for the right reasons it's better than being right for the wrong reasons.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

And that's fine, but when you can be right for the right reasons it's better than being right for the wrong reasons.

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That makes no sense.

Someone needs to make one of those funny 'How To [job]" flow charts for WHM.

Is there a mob? Y --> Does anyone need heals? N --> Does the tank have Regen? Y ---> Cleric + Holy = JOHN F'ING MADDEN [ARROWSPAM]
Does the tank need heals? Y --> Okay fiiine ---> Mob dead yet? N --> [Redirect arrow back to...] Cleric + Holy = JOHN F'ING MADDEN [ARROWSPAM]
Everything dead yet? Y ---> Shroud dem Saints

In all seriousness, if no one is dying or constantly in a high discomfort zone (beaten within an inch of their life before getting a heal, consistently and unnecessarily) and you're not saying "Hay weight gaiz I need MPz" every 5 seconds....... Why NOT dps? I don't get the problem?
If you're a reliable healer, not giving people heart attacks when DPSing, and mp managing, then.....?

If there have been some problems in the past like mad dogging/tunnel vision DPSing or using too much MP and unable to heal when necessary, then I can understand - but if that's not the case, then..... ??? o_O They don't want to complete dungeons faster (in terms of efficiency to move on to the next activity, not speed running)? Or is their stance just a single/narrow minded, "you're a healer and healers don't DPS"?

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Originally Posted by Coldea

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I'll concede that my numbers were a little basic and pulled from the air, but they weren't incorrect. (The #holy well... Yeah okay)

Just tested, I can continuously cast 16 Holy's in-combat. 17 with food.
About 14 with Swiftcast and PoM.

@i106 both classes (My blm isn't exactly geared)
520 Fire II with AF3.
810 Flare no AF3.
1370 Flare with AF3.
760 Holy.

I won't argue parsers or number because there's too much variation in circumstance. [Also not allowed! D;]
I merely wanted to point out that WHM can potentially be the highest rated DPS in certain situations.
(I've yet to be out dps'd in ST trash pulls by an incredible margin)