Healers doing damage

[Lyzern]

{Hello}, {Nice to meet you!}

So, I main a healer (First time ever in a MMO, always have been a damage dealer), I started off maining summoner and using Scholar for dungeons for the queues and I noticed something different in this game: I had freedom to do damage. And I liked it!

I started putting bios and aeros into everything in dungeons and eventually I became a stance dancer, even put cleric stance on my 4th mouse button and learned the stance buffering. I thought I was the best healer ever. People rarely died and I was actually doing something other than spamming Physick.

Well, recently I changed main to WHM and I love it even more. Holy is a beast. And using it on big pulls while keeping the tank alive is an amazing experience.

Problem is: My FC doesn't agree with me. They think and say that a healer should only heal and not waste MP on damage spells, as a whm, this makes some sense, but not entirely. In a dungeon where mobs get killed fast and MP replenishes in between, I figure it makes more sense to just spend MP until about 30% and then stop damaging, but by the time that happens, mobs are usually dead are almost.
Even on ex primals and coil I try to fit in at least Aero II + Aero since it does nice DoT.

What do you guys think of this? How do I prove my FC wrong? The damage numbers really are good, aren't they?

[Myrhn]

Your prove is that even dpsing everyone is alive.

[Moqi]

Your prove is that even dpsing everyone is alive.

This lol. If everyone is alive, whatever it is you're doing, it's working. Unless people are dying, do what you want.

[Kelya]

In any dungeons you are free to dps like crazy with both healers as long as you are confident with your skill to keep the party alive.

In any primals, that's the same but according to the other healer and the whole party (pick up team or not) you may have to heal all the time unfortunately.

In coil this is true that the WHM should dps less than the sch because of the MP. SCH is the one that is dpsing in coil, he's in charge of it and sometimes dpsing a lot (depending on the 2 healers skills) so as a WHM you will certainly be solo healing a good part of the fight, meaning even if you wanted to dps, you would be too busy to. But again if you feel confident, you can throw your 2 dot from time to time when it's safe.

Tell your fc that as long as your dps moment is not killing anyone, it's a dps increase for all the party, even if sometimes it's not a big number, it's still there. In dungeons it will be very noticeable. They have no argument against dpsing in this situation, so you can do what you want. You prove that dpsing is good by proving that dpsing isn't hurting anyone.

[Coldea]

Problem is: My FC doesn't agree with me. They think and say that a healer should only heal and not waste MP on damage spells

Your FC mates aren't good at this game... If we take them seriously, whhy does the tank even bother to dps, once the aggro is properly established ? His role is to maintain the mobs on him, he can grab a coffee when it's done, right ? Right ?
MP are a ressource that replenishes very quickly, if it is not used, it is wasted. Any extra damage is good, as long as noone gets dangerously low, or die...
On small pulls, healers can do decent numbers. Lets say that your DPS mates are doing 300 per sec, the tank only 100. That's 700 / sec. Now add 150 if you are dpsing as well, it's like giving both of your DPS a permanent +25% dmg buff, how is that not nice / not acceptable, why is it wrong to DPS.... If that doesnt prove your FC wrong, leave those guys !!

[UlricCraft]

Healer DPS is absurdly strong.

BiS BLM = 600+ int
BiS WHM = 600+ mnd

Cleric stance swaps the mnd/int value, and adds +10% damage.

Holy = 200 +10%
Flare = 260

WHM can cast Holy 20 times before they run dry on MP, BLM can cast it 4 times before rotating again.
In any short group pull with more than 3 enemies, WHM DPS can arguably be the strongest DPS in the game.

(This only applies to trash pulls! Hehe)

[Lyzern]

Healer DPS is absurdly strong.

BiS BLM = 600+ int
BiS WHM = 600+ mnd

Cleric stance swaps the mnd/int value, and adds +10% damage.

Holy = 200 +10%
Flare = 260

WHM can cast Holy 20 times before they run dry on MP, BLM can cast it 4 times before rotating again.
In any short group pull with more than 3 enemies, WHM DPS can arguably be the strongest DPS in the game.

(This only applies to trash pulls! Hehe)

Thanks for those numbers! Really good info

[Cynfael]

Healer DPS is absurdly strong.

BiS BLM = 600+ int
BiS WHM = 600+ mnd

Cleric stance swaps the mnd/int value, and adds +10% damage.

Holy = 200 +10%
Flare = 260

WHM can cast Holy 20 times before they run dry on MP, BLM can cast it 4 times before rotating again.
In any short group pull with more than 3 enemies, WHM DPS can arguably be the strongest DPS in the game.

(This only applies to trash pulls! Hehe)

Holy is indeed very strong, and your point is good, but don't forget to factor in AF when comparing AoE potency Flare hits about twice as hard as Holy.

Aside from Spell Speed debates, this is THE hot button topic for many of us on this sub-forum. While there are a few people who maintain an extremely narrow view of the healer role, I think that the majority of skilled players maintain that assisting with DPS is something that good, active healers do whenever it doesn't interfere with their ability to heal.

In short: your FC doesn't know how to play WHM or is giving you wrong-context advice. Not using Holy in faceroll dungeons should be punishable by...well...something. Maybe the Mudra rabbit?

[Coldea]

Healer DPS is absurdly strong.

BiS BLM = 600+ int
BiS WHM = 600+ mnd

Cleric stance swaps the mnd/int value, and adds +10% damage.

Holy = 200 +10%
Flare = 260

WHM can cast Holy 20 times before they run dry on MP, BLM can cast it 4 times before rotating again.
In any short group pull with more than 3 enemies, WHM DPS can arguably be the strongest DPS in the game.

(This only applies to trash pulls! Hehe)

This is not 100% accurate though... It is even pretty bad numbers you're giving..
Holy costs 532 MP, a decently geared healer has 5k++ MP. This amount will let you use Holy approx 12-13 times (using Shroud included), but not 20 times...
If you spam Holy, your potency / sec is 200 / 3 = 66,7.

Flare has a 260 potency, but Astral Fire 3 increases your fire damage by 80%, so the 'apparent potency' is actually 468. The rotation is (once the first rotation is done) Fire3, Fire2, Fire2, Flare.
As fire3 isnt AOE, the dmg is negligible, but we will count the time required to cast it in the rotation.
Flare potency : 468 (with AF3), Fire2 potency : 180 (with AF3).
A full rotation takes 3+3+3+4 sec to cast, for a total of 828 potency, which is 63,7 potency / sec.

So yeah, WHM are great in AOE, but it is not sustained... And the numbers are close...

[UlricCraft]

Snip

I'll concede that my numbers were a little basic and pulled from the air, but they weren't incorrect. (The #holy well... Yeah okay)

Just tested, I can continuously cast 16 Holy's in-combat. 17 with food.
About 14 with Swiftcast and PoM.

@i106 both classes (My blm isn't exactly geared)
520 Fire II with AF3.
810 Flare no AF3.
1370 Flare with AF3.
760 Holy.

I won't argue parsers or number because there's too much variation in circumstance. [Also not allowed! D;]
I merely wanted to point out that WHM can potentially be the highest rated DPS in certain situations.
(I've yet to be out dps'd in ST trash pulls by an incredible margin)