BLM DPS!!!

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Originally Posted by Garotte14

I don't know what Kael_Raiju means by using all procs at end of rotation, but that don't make any sense. You want to use your procs as soon as you get them. If you hold on to procs, you are potentially missing opportunities for more procs. The only time you should be holding on to procs are for movement purposes.

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^^This all the way.

Thunder III -> Fire III -> Fire [Raging Strikes] -> Fire [Int Pot/Quelling Strikes] -> Fire [Quelling strikes(if using pot)] -> Fire -> Fire -> Blizzard III -> Thunder I(!! Thunder I is the best DPS) -> Blizzard I [Transpose(if Fireproc)] -> Fire III -> etc.

You use the buffs between Fire's, because it will give you time to see if you get a Fire proc.

Always use Thunder I, except for opening attack, don't listen to people who say Thunder II is better. If you get an early MP tick, skip Blizzard I and go for Fire III directly, unless if you have a Fire proc on.

All this is to maximize your DPS though, the majority of your DPS will come from knowing the fights and how to get off as many spells as possible.

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Originally Posted by Garotte14

I don't know what Kael_Raiju means by using all procs at end of rotation, but that don't make any sense. You want to use your procs as soon as you get them. If you hold on to procs, you are potentially missing opportunities for more procs. The only time you should be holding on to procs are for movement purposes. For example: You get a proc but you know there is going to be an aoe in 3-5 seconds. Hold on to it so you can pop it while you are moving. As others have said, the biggest thing for BLMs is learning the fights. In order to maximize DPS, its all about up-time which requires as little movement as possible. If you are in a static, you should be coordinating with your group that you will not be in charge of movement heavy mechanics and if AOEs require a stacked group to spread out, you should be standing still while everyone else spreads away from you. Another thing is when to use transpose. It is my opinion that you should not be using your transpose for flares unless there are multiple targets. Don't use flare on a single target unless you have swiftcast/convert available. I specifically hold my transposes for when I get a fire proc while switching into Umbral Ice. So while I'm casting my thunder I/II, if I have a fire proc sitting there, I will transpose and the hit Fire III. This way you are already in Astral Fire and your Proc does 1100ish damage instead of 500.

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Holding off on Thundercloud isn't wrong at times...

Forgot to mention that above. You should always use Thunder III(proc) after a Fire... Unless you're in Umbral and have to reapply thunder dot.

If you for example have a fire proc and a thunder proc at the same time, don't go Fire III(proc) -> Thunder III(proc)... Go Fire III(proc) -> Fire -> Thunder III(proc)

Any thoughts on how we can compare the two in terms of numbers we could post here? I know I'm not the only one who uses the rotation I've described. I have yet to find someone running a different rotation able to outpace my numbers. Regardless of either rotation, neither will matter if you don't know the mechanics of the fight as I stated earlier. You HAVE to know when to flare, when to Fire II, when to move while casting, when to swiftcast, when to transpose/convert, manawall/ward. All of this plays into your ability to effectively DPS.

I would postulate that between these two rotations in discussion you won't see much of a difference in total numbers. Not enough to not do one or the other as they are basically the same minus when procs are used/not used. Now, if you're flaring at the beginning of a full MP bar I think we could all easily state that you'll have issues.

I do agree that you shouldn't be using Thunder III unless its a proc. The cast time is way too long and more often than not, you will be clipping your thunder ticks anyways which means you aren't even getting the full effect of that DoT. Of course I will never tell anyone how to play, because its their game that they pay for, but I jus try my best to offer advice to increase your play. The best times to use Thunder III are procs of course, and also when you have raging strikes and convert available. Since you will be adding a flare and an extra fire into that rotation, it takes slightly longer. So you are getting the most out of your extra thunder ticks. As far as PS4 controllers and hot bar limitations, I completely understand as I'm a PS4 player as well. But there is a way around that. There is an option called expanded controller layouts or something which allows you to hold L2+R2 together to bring up another hot bar that you set yourself. This gives you access to 8 other abilities without having to switch hot bars and switch back. If you are already hold R2 for example for your main attacks, just hold L2 along with it to access your other abilities and then let go of L2 to return. If you can master this, it is extremely useful.

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Originally Posted by Craiger

Thunder III -> Fire III -> Fire [Raging Strikes] -> Fire [Int Pot/Quelling Strikes] -> Fire [Quelling strikes(if using pot)] -> Fire -> Fire -> Blizzard III -> Thunder I(!! Thunder I is the best DPS) -> Blizzard I [Transpose(if Fireproc)] -> Fire III -> etc.

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no swiftcast flare-->convert-->fire 1-->bliz III to go with the int pot and raging strikes?

You all should just go check out this document done with real maths, not just assumptions (no offense).

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...DVkM1E#gid=117

First off, Open document, go to Calculator tab, check the dps number (says "DPS here")... The one with highest DPS (except some crazy rotations that doesn't work), is Thunder I -> Blizzard I -> Fire III as standard umbral rotation

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

no swiftcast flare-->convert-->fire 1-->bliz III to go with the int pot and raging strikes?

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Yes, sorry forgot... Thanks for pointing out

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Originally Posted by Craiger

You use the buffs between Fire's, because it will give you time to see if you get a Fire proc.

Always use Thunder I, except for opening attack, don't listen to people who say Thunder II is better. If you get an early MP tick, skip Blizzard I and go for Fire III directly, unless if you have a Fire proc on.

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I do use Thunder I. Thunder II isn't even on my hot bar. I have tested this multiple times and more often than not, Thunder 1 is a slight DPS boost as opposed to Thunder II. Either that or they are dead even with only a difference of 2-4 DPS. I prefer Thunder I because of the shortened cast time. I completely understand about weaving as I do use it myself when I have lethargy and other buffs available. It does benefit me in most cases.

Practice and test and see what you find works best for you.

There is a lot of bad info around about how do max DPS on BLM (a fair bit in this thread imo too ;D), but there are some useful things here and there.

Most useful tip I've seen anyone post is "make sure to always be casting".

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Originally Posted by Kael_Raiju

I save my procs because you get a slight lull time by using them in the middle of your rotation. By continuing the rotation with Astral Fire III active and kicking out Fire I's I have noticed that my DPS increases when procs are used at the end. I'm not going to sit here and claim that what I do works for everyone else by any means. I'm comfortable with my rotation and I'm always behind the tank in hate regardless of fight. To me that's enough to justify to myself that what I'm doing works for me.

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What do you mean there's a "slight lull time" when usng procs in the middle of your rotation? They have the same recast time as a regular fire I, and have higher potency. You're losing out on potential DPS if you aren't popping Fire III whenever firestarter is up.

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Originally Posted by Kael_Raiju

I save my procs because you get a slight lull time by using them in the middle of your rotation. By continuing the rotation with Astral Fire III active and kicking out Fire I's I have noticed that my DPS increases when procs are used at the end.

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Of course you can do whatever you feel comfortable with. My only advice is that your reasoning is incorrect. There are no "lull times" in using a proc. The recast time is the exact same as Fire I. Only difference is the proc is instant cast. You wait the exact same amount of time if you were to use a Fire 1. If you can cast 5 Fire 1s in a single Astral Fire set, and you get 1 proc that you hold till the end, you add 1 extra fire cast. If you cast a proc immediately after you get it, you could potentially get 2-3 Fire III procs. This is not a slight boost in DPS, this is a huge boost. I won't say your numbers are bad cause I don't know them, but I am telling you that they could be much better.