Please make the ability to get Mastercraft Demimateria equal for all classes

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Originally Posted by yexie

Leatherworkers/Weavers only have it easy on Fieldcraft III because they can simply buy the Novelty Gear from an NPC (which was just wrong as is, putting them in an npc AND making them craftable at the same time... crafting them was pointless from the beginning... but that's another thread).

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This is actually good for the economy. The Items obtained from NPC is taking gil directly out of the system instead of shuffling it from player to player.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

I don't think you understand how economies work. If everyone was homogeneous then it wouldn't work. It's the disparity between individuals that fuels purchases and moves money around. You're solution would literally harm the game economy.

Should each class be given something useful that can be obtained via desynthing? Yes. They can make money selling their desynth results to buy desynth results from classes they don't have. That's what we lack right now. Genuinely useful results from each desynth category. The fix listed is a band-aid that fails to take game balance into account. The better solution is to have results for other classes that have real demand.

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This is a valid argument for the OP point of view. I concur. We need this tug-o-war to keep the markets flowing. Balance them out and the markets will stagnate once again. Why do you think the newest relics required items crafted from 8 different classes desynth to make? So one person with their 3 maxed out desynths could not make the other 5. They want us buying off each other.

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Originally Posted by yexie

I would like to know how exactly THIS would harm the games economy? Please elaborate. Every class having the same means to acquire Mastercraft Demimateria would not make everybody homogeneous.



All the other Demimaterias can be acquired by all classes except Culinarian. Leatherworkers/Weavers only have it easy on Fieldcraft III because they can simply buy the Novelty Gear from an NPC (which was just wrong as is, putting them in an npc AND making them craftable at the same time... crafting them was pointless from the beginning... but that's another thread).
There is really no "special" item that ONLY Carpenter, Weaver and Leatherworker can get. All Weaver and Leatherworker have is a small advantage in getting some stuff (like Allagan Silk and Leather, though those are also drops, so everybody can get them).

Carpenter got the low-end all through desynthesis.

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But Culinarians are the only class that can desynth fish not alchemy. Making them the only one that can get the mats for that rare glamour gear.

Yeah, cause the easy FC3's aren't enough for WVR.

For starters, Silver Sovereign is a 2-Star fish and generally considered the LEAST optimal way to get a Forager's Hat (and thus Mastercraft Demimateria). CRP has an option in the Forager's Rod but it needs 20 HQ Silver Sovereign which is completely unfeasible to deem it a reliable source (I got a Field3 from mine btw). There's a thread on this over in the Item&Synth section (or maybe it was the DoH?) with a far more indepth detailing on how unbalanced the gains for MDM is between the various classes.

As for people saying it's balanced by how say Field3 is easier to obtain for some (mainly LTW and WVR). In terms of cost the bridesmaid/bridesgroom are not very cost efficient for Field3 compared to what they sell for on market board. GSM also has really easy access to these in the glasses that can be made from very cheap and easily accessible materials (especially if you bother killing some imperials yourself for them). Fieldcraft and Mastercraft materias are NOT balanced at all among all the classes in availability or ease of gaining and people who say they are, are outright ignorant.

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Originally Posted by Parodine

If everyone had the ability the desynth into Mastercraft demis, then likely the market would be full of them, or at least a lot more than have now. The prices would crash, etc.

Now, that's not going to destroy the market, by any means, but it would make those current desynth classes less attractive.

Don't give me wrong, my Alchemy desynth at 83.5 is my highest, so your suggestion would help me, but being able to level multiple desynth classes, it isn't hard to pick one that is able to mastercraft, another for something else, and a third for funsies, etc.

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The prices are much higher than any other item that comes from desynthesis. Because unlike all other items GSM/BSM have the monopole on them and they are actually needed for progressing in crafting/gathering unlike the primal demimaterias for example, which are basically for glamour.
And yes you're right if all would be able to make them BSM/GSM would be as (un)attractive as the rest ;)

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Originally Posted by PandaPause

This is actually good for the economy. The Items obtained from NPC is taking gil directly out of the system instead of shuffling it from player to player.

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YES, completely agree, just they shouldn't have made them craftable at the same time.

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Originally Posted by WHS

This is a valid argument for the OP point of view. I concur. We need this tug-o-war to keep the markets flowing. Balance them out and the markets will stagnate once again. Why do you think the newest relics required items crafted from 8 different classes desynth to make? So one person with their 3 maxed out desynths could not make the other 5. They want us buying off each other.

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I get your point, but your example can't be compared IMO. The Mastercraft Demimateria are only needed by endgame crafters and gatherers, they are needed by ALL of them. So your example of balance and buying from each other would need another type of Mastercraft Demimateria to be acquirable by desynthers other than BSM/GSM, so that for example BSM/GSM and whatever else would need THAT item for THEIR endgame crafting gear and would buy it from WVR/LTW/CRP or whatever... and WVR/LTW/CRP need the help of BSM/GSM for their respective gears. That would be balance. But that's not how it is.

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Originally Posted by desufin

For starters, Silver Sovereign is a 2-Star fish and generally considered the LEAST optimal way to get a Forager's Hat (and thus Mastercraft Demimateria). CRP has an option in the Forager's Rod but it needs 20 HQ Silver Sovereign which is completely unfeasible to deem it a reliable source (I got a Field3 from mine btw). There's a thread on this over in the Item&Synth section (or maybe it was the DoH?) with a far more indepth detailing on how unbalanced the gains for MDM is between the various classes.

As for people saying it's balanced by how say Field3 is easier to obtain for some (mainly LTW and WVR). In terms of cost the bridesmaid/bridesgroom are not very cost efficient for Field3 compared to what they sell for on market board. GSM also has really easy access to these in the glasses that can be made from very cheap and easily accessible materials (especially if you bother killing some imperials yourself for them). Fieldcraft and Mastercraft materias are NOT balanced at all among all the classes in availability or ease of gaining and people who say they are, are outright ignorant.

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QFT!
Not sure if this is the thread you mean, but here is one that gives a LOT of info on the subject. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Endgame-Guide

Thank you for your feedback regarding mastercraft materia, we’ve been sure to pass it along.

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Originally Posted by yexie

Now 2.5 arrived and I got happy because new trade-in Artisan Gear that would match Weaver, Leatherworker and Carpenters appeared, but those can not be desynthed... WHY??

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In regards to this, we have a general policy that you won’t be able to desynth untradeable/unique items right after their release, and this is how we have operated gear throughout our patches.

This also applies to the artisan gear that was added in Patch 2.5. We don’t have a specific date on when we might allow the artisan gear to be desynthable, but we will consider it in the future.

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Originally Posted by yexie

The Mastercraft Demimateria are only needed by endgame crafters and gatherers, they are needed by ALL of them.

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Yes and that's the point. Everyone needs them but only a few can create them. So when people pick their three desynthers they take into account what each is capable of making. By having items you personally can't obtain you are forced to get it from other players. That is an action that quite literally drives the economy. That forced human interaction for goods. If every class can get everything not only would that market crash from over saturation, but trading between players would nearly disappear. Thus hurting the economy.

This is economy 101 type stuff here. Not rocket science. There is nothing wrong with each class having unique desynths that the others need. The problem is that the money making power of each desynth class is not created equal so it is difficult to desynth your unique items, sell them for profit, and then obtaining demi materia with your newfound cash. That is the problem. Not the demand for demimateria.

When everyone can supply themselves there is no demand. Economies only exist due to supply and demand.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

Yes and that's the point. Everyone needs them but only a few can create them. So when people pick their three desynthers they take into account what each is capable of making. By having items you personally can't obtain you are forced to get it from other players. That is an action that quite literally drives the economy. That forced human interaction for goods. If every class can get everything not only would that market crash from over saturation, but trading between players would nearly disappear. Thus hurting the economy.

This is economy 101 type stuff here. Not rocket science. There is nothing wrong with each class having unique desynths that the others need. The problem is that the money making power of each desynth class is not created equal so it is difficult to desynth your unique items, sell them for profit, and then obtaining demi materia with your newfound cash. That is the problem. Not the demand for demimateria.

When everyone can supply themselves there is no demand. Economies only exist due to supply and demand.

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I don't disagree with you, but not "everybody" needs them. Since this is only something concerning endgame crafter/gatherers I just don't think it would hurt the overall economy. Of course the better way would be to find a balance in some other way, but a balance is still needed. Because right now BSM/GSM desynthers can do just that: "supply themselves" without taking part in the circle of supply and demand.

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Originally Posted by yexie

Since this is only something concerning endgame crafter/gatherers I just don't think it would hurt the overall economy.

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In think you underestimate how much of the economy is directly driven by crafting. It's far more intertwined into everything. If getting these upgrades became easier we'd have more top level crafters which would then over saturate other markets with the glut of new supply coming in from the new high level crafters. It's all connected. These things can be considered barriers to entry in much the same way iLvl is for battle. Once you've obtained them you can suddenly break into a new tier of goods. Both through improved HQ odds on stuff you can already make, and through access to new recipes. It's not just related to demimateria.

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Originally Posted by yexie

Of course the better way would be to find a balance in some other way, but a balance is still needed. Because right now BSM/GSM desynthers can do just that: "supply themselves" without taking part in the circle of supply and demand.

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I agree this is a problem. We just need a more targeted solution than give everyone all the things. Make more groups useful and intertwine the demands between the different classes better. They definitely have room for improvement when it comes to demimateria. The last relic step using all that desynthing was a good step but we need more.