Buffing Warriors damage in Xpac?

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Originally Posted by Windklinge

the op has a point. tough its definitly to early to say anything but as a long term mmo veteran i can say this one sadly savely. the NEW class will always be better than the OLD class because why? SALES. if the new classes are OP more people will buy the xpac to play em. if that same thing happens with drk then you wont see any paladin or warrior anymore 4 weeks into the xpac. of course they will address that issue with time. but until that point everyone will go dark knight. i really hope warrior remains a solid and equal choice to DRK because thier role (offtank mainly) is basicly the same but drk is just way cooler because of sword > axe. so lets hope they dont screw us veteran tank players all over. i dont wanna restart completly with gear or another class just because the devs fail at balance.

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Thank you windklinge, at least you agree with me unlike everyone else that just up right attacked me, but then again "Internet"

Vets of MMO's have ALL seen this done many times over when a new class comes out, shoot even IN this game, ninjas when they came out were doing too well what the dev's wanted leaving dragoons to be left in the dust. In the end minor nerfs had to be done to ninjas to lower them down and minor buffs to dragoons to make them really good. Now you got another tanking class coming in that pretty much does the same thing what warriors do and just like many MMO's it will come out OP outdoing the warrior in performance.

Now, the reason why I brought this up was cause the head guy himself when asked what will dks do compare to warriors and he said it himself that Dk's will use life stealing to regain its health back from the damage he takes(I think we all knew that one) but HOW much is the question? If the dk get the same amount of HP as the warrior and does the same amount of damage as the warrior with higher lifesteal which makes the warrior look like a pile of poo, what will you want a warrior for? IF the dk does MORE damage then the warrior added with those others, then what will you want a warrior for? These questions WILL always come up cause this brings concern to the people who play them.

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Originally Posted by Windklinge

the op has a point. tough its definitly to early to say anything but as a long term mmo veteran i can say this one sadly savely. the NEW class will always be better than the OLD class because why? SALES.

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Except...it's totally wrong. People will all play the new class...because its new.
As a long term player of FFXI none of the expansion jobs were better that previous ones. In fact, vanilla jobs are still among the most played and most useful ones. After each expansion, there were a bunch of buffs to make new jobs on par with previous ones. SAM and DRG were terrible DPS at first, SCH was only a subjob for WHM, Puppetmaster was excruciantingly weak because DEVs didn't even know what to do with it, and so on...
And maybe we can look at FFXIV, too, right ? At 2.0, everyone played SMN and SCH...and they're in no way better than jobs from 1.xx. At 2.4, Ninjas bloomed everywhere...and they're still behind MNK.

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Originally Posted by Pinkie_Pie

Thank you windklinge, at least you agree with me unlike everyone else that just up right attacked me, but then again "Internet"

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It's the guy who starts to rant without any information that calls for the flaws of "internet". You gave me my daily laugh, thank you.

Warrrior imo just needs a really big self heal buff, there supposed to be blood tanks but fail miserably in that regard outside of normal world mobs

buff inner beast to 300% self heal
buff blood to 50% seal heal
nerf defiance to 10% heal bonus or maybe even remove it, if you can can heal yourself better then healers wont need to heal you as much so the defiance buff isn't really needed

imo warrior was a failed design from SE, they had a vision on what they wanted it to be but never quite pulled it off, they then altered the class so its survival was better, but they didn't carry on down the same self healing road they had in mind at the beginning

drk is gonna most likely be the tank they initially wanted warrior to be but didn't quite get it right

Almost everything you suggest was there at release, and it just didn't work compared to PLD tanking.

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Originally Posted by AckersFury

buff inner beast to 300% self heal
buff blood to 50% seal heal
nerf defiance to 10% heal bonus or maybe even remove it, if you can can heal yourself better then healers wont need to heal you as much so the defiance buff isn't really needed

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#1 was already there and was a failure. Much better now.
#2 would be nice as a trait if nothing better comes in between
#3 would just set PLD as the one and only tank. Defiance as it is now is already weaker than shield oath (not by a lot, but it is) because you need more heals to regen the same HP.

also, DRK is apparently going to be a parry/dodge tank. Please explain how that is what the WAR is supposed to be (meat tank) ?

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

#1 was already there and was a failure. Much better now.
#2 would be nice as a trait if nothing better comes in between
#3 would just set PLD as the one and only tank. Defiance as it is now is already weaker than shield oath (not by a lot, but it is) because you need more heals to regen the same HP.

also, DRK is apparently going to be a parry/dodge tank. Please explain how that is what the WAR is supposed to be (meat tank) ?

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I would say it was less of a failure and more of a too "complex" for most people to operate properly. Since it required healers to know when u were going to IB as to prevent overhealing. The biggest "failure" with the old version of WAR was tying the healing bonus into Wraith stacks. Which made most warriors afraid to ever even use them. I actually prefered WAR how it was except for a few minor changes and wish they devs would have kept it more of a "blood" tank than and PLD w/out a shield with more health as it is now. IMO there really is not many major playing differences in pld and war.

The problem was tying the survival of WAR to its own stats, which grow far slower than monster ones.
Reducing damage from monsters will always be far higher than increasing heals from your own damage, that's why they added damage mitigation to WAR while it had none. By the way, it's not because they both have damage mitigation than one tank is ruined. So, even if DRK has a way of self-healing, it doesn't mean that WAR will be useless.

And if you keep the added damage mitigation while still going back on early skills, you can be sure that everyone will starts ranting about the inbalance between existing tanks.

Once again, both tanks are balanced nowadays and we know absolutely nothing about the skills that DRK will have...so wait and see.

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Originally Posted by DonkeyPooh

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As much as I'd want to agree, I won' allow myself to be blind regarding the major flaws of WAR back then. IB had no mitigation buff, and while communication about it to prevent overhealing was appreciable, WAR were next to incapable of tanking T5, and would have been utterly unable to tank T9, and maybe any of the new Coil (T10-13) due to high damaging skill happening far too often to throw vengeance for all of them. During the 2 month period before the WAR revamp, finding a group for coil was nearly impossible as a WAR. Now they just ask you to OT at most, if they even bother to make the distinction.

WARs would have worked properly as meat bags if they had had like +40% hp instead of +25%, and something like +30-40% heals to make up for the "no defensive CD" thing. Numbers may be a bit high, but when you have no mitigation options, you have to truly make up for it, and 2.0 were simply unable to do that.

well in the end we can only hope that they show some of the drks skills and abilities before the xpac launches. there is always some big promotion thing going beforehand of an xpacs launch since it is not a "free" patch this time people will want to know atleast partly what they are buying here. thankfully there is 2 more new classes so not everyone will roll drk like it was with ninja. hopefully its fairly balanced. or if they just increase raidgrp size there wouldnt be problems at all. because currently IF drk is better than war. then why use WAR on a raiding party of 8? thats the important part i think. with more jobs coming the adding of bigger raidgroups is basicly a must have soon. maybe not with heavensward but one xpac later definitly.

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Originally Posted by Pinkie_Pie

http://i.imgur.com/TOixf.png?1?9097


What do you guys think?

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We should put bronies in concentration camps. Oh, about warriors? Too early to say. We have no idea what dark knights will even be like.