WAR viability in T12 and T13?

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Originally Posted by Gildarts

Encore did the fight with WAR MT, 115 weapons and killed before enrage

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Doing T13 with anything but PLD MT WAR OT is just a poor decision. WAR gets hit so much harder and provides significant utility in OT role that is impossible to do from MT role.

Doing FCoB with anything other than PLD+WAR is also a poor decision.

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Originally Posted by Dhex

Just going to echo this. I run on PLD and I push 175-180 with a full VIT build in Tank stance the entire fight and I have to clip my combos to prevent running out of TP. Maybe he's missing? Accuracy problems?

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If the DPS difference is that significant then something is amiss with his gear or his rotations need work. In either case he should at least be sporting an i110 weapon on either job and since PLD and WAR share the same gear his highest level weapon should be the determining factor of which job he comes as unless PLD or WAR is specifically needed for a mechanic in that fight.

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

Doing T13 with anything but PLD MT WAR OT is just a poor decision. WAR gets hit so much harder and provides significant utility in OT role that is impossible to do from MT role.

Doing FCoB with anything other than PLD+WAR is also a poor decision.

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You might say warrior gets hit 20% harder than Paladin.

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Originally Posted by Instrumentality

You might say warrior gets hit 20% harder than Paladin.

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WAR gets hit significantly harder than just 20%. Look into this fancy thing called a Shield. Oh, and T13 spikes for P1/2 are tuned perfectly around PLD mitigation timers; WAR is going to be deficient.

And while an argument could be made that WAR MT is better in P4, the major drawback is that it is no longer safe to wear full Ruby, which is going to cut down WAR damage output considerably for the rest of the fight.

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

WAR gets hit significantly harder than just 20%. Look into this fancy thing called a Shield. Oh, and T13 spikes for P1/2 are tuned perfectly around PLD mitigation timers; WAR is going to be deficient.

And while an argument could be made that WAR MT is better in P4, the major drawback is that it is no longer safe to wear full Ruby, which is going to cut down WAR damage output considerably for the rest of the fight.

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You mean like the dreadwyrm shield I have on my paladin? I wouldn't know anything about that. Warrior main tanks are also a notable dps increase over paladin main tanks.

And there is no way on earth a warrior doesn't have inner beast for every single damage spike on turn 13 so I have no idea why paladins also being able to cooldown the exact same moves is somehow exceedingly better.

By the way, I am a paladin and I main tank turn 13. I just think it's hilarious that anyone would ever act like warriors aren't 100% viable and in some situations better to main tank on turn 13 with.

There are numerous reasons why WAR OT is superior for T13, and only some of them have to do with tank damage (and PLD still mitigates far better). There's also keeping up Eye/Path fulltime as OT, which is impossible to do while MT while not losing aggro to PLD, and keeping Path up is important.

So let's recap:
- PLD takes significantly less damage than WAR
- WAR cannot maintain debuffs and hold aggro off PLD while MT

This is pretty clear cut.

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

This is pretty clear cut.

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Except none of what you said is true other than in completely RNG situations where shield blocks happen absurdly frequently? A warrior with proper use of UBIR versus a paladin completely maxing out damage output (aka not skipping fracture) won't rip hate in the first phase, which is the ONLY phase where it might even be remotely possible to steal threat in full strength gear versus a melded gear warrior. If the paladin is thirty points in strength might make it possible to make a comeback in the second phase if they skip fracture to increase their threat generation or stay in shield oath because they hate doing good DPS or something.

Not to mention that Path is by no means essential to surviving any mechanic in turn 13. So no you do not "have" to keep it up. Just like you don't "have" to main tank as a paladin, because warriors are 100% viable and in some cases preferred.

Ellatrix. Was just curious. How many i130 weapons did you guys have on your clear?

3, and we had plenty of time before enrage (it just started doing Megaflare after 5th Akh Morn).

I find it hard to see your points as legitimate reasons seeing as how our WAR MT is doing 36 more dps than your PLD and our SCH is doing 34 more dps than yours. The fact that our SCH was able to DPS as much as he did should show that a WAR MT can mitigate damage just fine and do more damage in the MT role. I don't really understand your logic in getting so triggered over WAR MT :/