XIV WAR Tanking - Baseline Mitigation and PLD comparison

A PLD in our FC mentioned during a Titan run I was listening to in the Voice chat that he only has to do his 1..2..3.. combo over and over to keep aggro, and only has to use a cooldown here and there on the table flip to be absolutely sure so he can continue eating his supper while tanking.. (obviously standing with one leg in the air at the edge of the platform so many bomb setups wouldnt hit him, only needing to move an inch here and there, but thats not the problem to discuss as a warrior can do this as well.)

I had to work like an idiot with self heals and what not to stay alive.

If a warrior has to work hard to achieve the same result as a pld can with one hand on his food and the other hand on the keyboard, basically semi-afk, something needs to be fixed imo. Yeah a perfectly played warrior might be able to perform as good as a paladin.. But he is no match for a paladin if he plays perfectly instead..

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/2881036/

Lhun, please just be silent. You have little to no experience to warrant any of what you are posting.

Almost everything that was left out of the original post is so minor that is the entire reason it was left out.

Warrior is inferior get it into your brain, Yes i understand you feel betrayed that the job you leveled sucks, many of us do.

AND yes due to the nature of speed runs and such, it is quite easy to OVER GEAR content and say warrior is viable just fine...

But information like the original post is what gets things balanced in the future.

i did my own Math littlebit. lets see what you think:

Boss fight 200k dmg in 5min.

Lets say IB heals everytime for 1300. we can use it 4 times in One Minute, so, abou 20 times.

20x 1300 = 26'000 Selfheal.

Bloodbath heals you how much? 1100 HP in 30sec? lets be nice and say 1500HP, Bloodbath can be used in 5min 3 times

3x 1500 = 4500

i dont really Count stormspath, cuz debuff on Boss is more important, but lets just say once every 30sec, how much heal Stormspath? 100-150, lets say 130.

10x 130 = 1300.

So, we have from our 3 selfheal abilities a Total Heal from 31'800HP Selfheal. In 5 Minute.

so we heal about 15,9% from the Total dmg ourself up.

200'000dmg in 5min means 666 DpS, so lets use a 2,5sec Attack Speed, then we have 1666dmg all 2,5sec.

Paladin take all the time "only" 1333dmg (Shield Oath 20% dmg reduce) so he reduce in 5min fight, only with his Tank Stance, about, 39'960dmg.
Then he can use for 20sec 90sec CD his other 20% dmg reduce, he can use Rampage 3 times, so again, 8000dmg reduce
Then he can use Sentinel for 10sec 180sec CD (if he use it at the beginn he can turn it on twice) again about 6000dmg reduce.
and his mighty Hallowed Ground 10sec, 420sec CD, so he can use it once, that means 6700dmg reduce.
He has also his Block Abilitie 15sec, 180sec CD (if he use at at the beginn he can turn it on twice, and Block = 20-24% dmg reduce, les Count with 20% and a Chance by 50%) that will be about 12'000dmg reduce.

lets Count

Total:

72'660 dmg reduce in 5min fight, thats about 36% dmg reduce.


So, maybe i did something wrong with my Math, but for me it seems, Healer have more then just "Little" harder time with Warrior Tank.

Sure i didnt Count Featherfoot, i didnt Count Convalsence (wich Paladin has 30% Bonus from it) i even Count Blockrate from Pala only with 50% (even if his buff give a Bonus 60% more Chance)

But at the end, it will be the same. Warrior Need alot more Heal.

And aslong Warrior Need more Heal then a Paladin, solong we will be a "burden" for our Group and our Healer. and thats the MAINPOINT here, in all These Threads.


ps. sorry for my english.

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Originally Posted by ChriskoOnAnotherLevel

Warrior is inferior get it into your brain, Yes i understand you feel betrayed that the job you leveled sucks, many of us do.

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Being inferior and sucking are two different things. WAR doesn't suck, it is just lackluster in some areas that it should excel at (the most obvious one being self heals). PLD is easier on the healers but does less damage over time while tanking, WAR does more damage over time while being more stressful on the healers. If you want a comfortable fight that may last longer if your DPS isn't balls to the wall, then you'd want PLD. If you want a quick and dirty run of that same fight, you want WAR. Titan is a prime example of this, as PLD are the preferred choice for him as it is guaranteed they won't die unless they're either the worst PLD ever or the DPS doesn't break the heart. However, if your team plays the fight correctly, a WAR can make Titan go down all the more quickly, even being able to contribute burst damage to the heart.

Past Titan, we are inferior for most of the turns of Coil. In some instances it's better to have us, in some it's not. Regardless, PLD is the safe way to play so that's why you'll see mostly 2x PLD in Coil runs. So, yes, at Coil and possibly Titan we are outclassed. This does not mean we suck. :]

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Originally Posted by Lhun

Way to parrot what everyone else thinks. Yes, we know you all think that.

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It's not just what everyone else thinks. I can run the numbers. It's trivial.

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Those of us who have tried different play with warrior feel you are wrong.

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That's wonderful. There are people who think the world is under 100,000 years old, that evolution is a lie, and that a bearded fat man in a red suit brings them presents once a year. I just want you to know the company you're keeping.

Ok my math is usually way off for game stuff but let us just assume for a second here. Situation: 5 mins, ideal setting, 1v1 boss that does 1k damage every 2 seconds.

5min = 300s which means 150 attacks at 1000 hp each meaning a loss of 150,000 hp

Your number:
35,500, that is how much hp you have healed away burning every cool down you have perfectly. Given by your own math.

As a paladin:
Just in shield oath, means -20% damage meaning I mitigated 30,000 (150k * .2)

Who wins?

(yeah I know very basic and flawed, but done more to illustrate a quick point)

This is a pretty sweet breakdown to be honest! Nice work.

One thing that's just occurred is this though...

WAR vs. PLD debate there's no doubt PLD copes better end game. But from your workouts above PLD only pulls ahead once the incoming damage creeps above a certain %.

The ammount war can heal himself over that time is pretty much fixed (apart from acc and mob defence). Whereas a PLD mitigation is % of incoming damage. So if the mob is hitting weak a war can almost self sustain?

Once incoming dps pulls drastically ahead of WARs selfhealpersec does a PLD become more effective.

The fact is that in coil the incoming dps is way higher than wars shps (shps).

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Originally Posted by Lhun

You also failed to mention the utility of berzerk + second wind (a 500-750 minimum healing every 120 seconds) Bloodbath (every 90 seconds), and Thrill of Battle (every 120 seconds).

Thank you. I hope you are surprised by your findings. I was.

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Now, I'm no mathematician like the OP but I'm pretty sure a 500-700 heal every 120s / Bloodbath (30s up time 60s down time) and a thrill of battle every 120s isn't going to close the mitigation gap between warrior and paladin.

Well done, OP, very thorough! Nice to know my intuition is still sharp as ever!

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Originally Posted by Terabyt3

This is a pretty sweet breakdown to be honest! Nice work.

One thing that's just occurred is this though...

WAR vs. PLD debate there's no doubt PLD copes better end game. But from your workouts above PLD only pulls ahead once the incoming damage creeps above a certain %.

The ammount war can heal himself over that time is pretty much fixed (apart from acc and mob defence). Whereas a PLD mitigation is % of incoming damage. So if the mob is hitting weak a war can almost self sustain?

Once incoming dps pulls drastically ahead of WARs selfhealpersec does a PLD become more effective.

The fact is that in coil the incoming dps is way higher than wars shps (shps).

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Unblockable/magic damage would impact a war less too. Shame there aint much of that about :D